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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  14:26:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eeyore! Itís so wonderful to hear from you.

I agree with much of what you say about OotP and HBP. These books really were written to show Harryís flaws and failings.

quote:
I have a little different take on the last three books. Harry's "dark night of the soul" was that period of time when he became more aware of what really faced him. Yes, he stood up to all those things in the first four books, but it was with the innocent confidence of youth. Finally in OP he is seeing his situation and the wizarding world around him from a more adult perspective. He wouldn't seem like he was growing up if he continued to be the hero who just forged ahead with no real questions or consequences.
True. And annoying as CapsLock!Harry was in OotP, I would have had no problem with this interlude of angst if it had ended by DH. The problem is that it didnít. Growing up means facing those adult problems and responsibilities with the confidence of an adult.

quote:
And the reason he was so ineffective in OP was that he put all his trust in himself. I think one of the points that JKR makes throughout the series is that we have to have some help along the way.
Everyone inexplicably had a really bad case of stupidity in OotP, so I just put Harryís bad decisions down to the same malady. Youíre right though. He does much better when he talks to Ė and listens to Ė his friends.

quote:
In HBP, which is what I'm currently listening to, it does seem like Harry can't get much done. But he really does a lot. It's just that it's the reverse of OP - he's talking to his friends about what he thinks is going on with Malfoy but THEY aren't listening. He's been wrong so many times in the past on his evaluation of Snape that they have learned to not trust his judgment.
Yes, the boy-who-lived is also the boy-who-cried-wolf one too many times. Nevertheless, even if his friends had listened, it wouldnít have changed anything because they werenít going to get into the Room of Requirement and sabotage Dracoís work. Even Snape couldnít figure out what Draco was up to and he certainly had a vested interest in knowing.

The key point here is that while Harry does a lot (we wouldnít have a book if he didnít), he utterly fails to achieve his major goal. The same is true in OotP which is what sets these books apart so starkly from the first four.

quote:
What it gives us is the picture of an imperfect hero. And I like that much better than the kind of hero who never makes a mistake or who gets more and more powerful each year. Harry, in his imperfection, is becoming more human, more like an ordinary man placed in extraordinary circumstances. The hero who is more human makes a better role model because he shows us that we don't have to be super-human and perfect to have courage and make the right choices.
Yes, but this isnít the issue. I donít know of anyone who wants Harry to be perfect. In fact, I donít think the perfect Greek Hero has been popular for a century or more. Every hero in any decent story is conflicted or flawed in some way.

quote:
And as for DH, which I loved and I know y'all didn't, it's the story that one person alone will struggle and might not succeed, but two or in this case, three together can make a difference and accomplish their goal.
Yes, but this has been the story all along. This was a major theme from the very first book and frankly it was done better in those because while Harry couldnít manage without his friends, he was still the leader and the hero who had to face down the evil in the end.

In the latter 3 books, Harry isnít driving the action anymore. Dumbledore is or Draco is and by DH Harry is being dragged forward by events beyond his control. Even in the end, Harryís crucial choice to go and let Voldemort kill him isnít a choice at all because he had no other option. What else was he going to do? Fight and die along with everyone else? Leave everyone to die and run away so he could be hunted down and killed another day?

Yes, it was brave and noble of him to hold his head high while being led to his execution, but make no mistake he was still being led in chains. It is this fatalism I find deeply disappointing.

quote:
But, you first have to figure out what the goal is, which is part of that going back and forth over whether to look for Horcruxes or Hallows.
I canít agree here. Which part of ďYou canít get rid of Voldemort without destroying all the HorcruxesĒ wasnít clear? Besides, this was always a sham decision. Dumbledore told Harry to go after the Horcruxes and guess what? It was Dumbledore who set up Harry to go after the DHs too. Obviously he intended for Harry to do both which, surprise, surprise, is exactly what Harry winds up doing. This was all a foregone conclusion from the moment Hermione got her book of fairy tales.

quote:
JKR has compellingly made the case that it takes all of us working together to overcome evil. It's not some easy or trivial task that can be accomplished by one outstanding hero. Even those who don't think of themselves as brave have a part to play.
True, but the hero still needs to have some quality or purpose beyond the rest of those fighting for the light. Thatís why the series is called Harry Potter. And yet, Harry doesnít have any such quality or purpose in the DH. As you point out, everyone else seems to shine, but Harry doesnít. Itís not just that others step up to be leaders when Harry isnít available. Harry doesnít lead even when he is around and he certainly isnít effective. I donít want the naÔve confidence of childhood, but I do expect a confidence and purposefulness suitable to Harryís years of experience.

At the end of the day, I judge a book by the relevance it holds in real life. Any decent book or series has many themes. HP addresses prejudice, the importance of friendship and teamwork and many others. But these themes have always been there. What Iím talking about here is the big message, the one that culminates a story and becomes the overriding theme of a book or series. This is what I was waiting for in DH and I cannot pretend that I was not disappointed.

Because HP ultimately is about death. JKR said so before DH came out. Itís about accepting death, not being afraid of it. She had her reasons for this and it could have been a very powerful message in a different series aimed at adults, but it was a very poor choice for HP. Weíre talking about a target audience thatís high-school aged or younger. These kids have FAR more important lessons to learn than how to face death with dignity. Frankly, most adults do too. Letís face it; weíre all going to manage to die someday. Itís living that takes work and DH doesnít say nearly as much about that as the previous six books promised it would.

Hereís what we DONíT learn in DH:

1) How the Slytherin students overcame their prejudices to find common ground with students from the other houses and fight together in the final battle.

2) How Harry realized that he had been wrong about Snape and showed the strength of character to admit it and to forgive the man for all his abuse over the years.

3) How good guys are above using the bad guysí tactics such as torturing someone for spitting on their favorite teacher.

4) How incredibly powerful and successful bad guys donít get that way by being stupid. Arrogant, yes. Stupid, no.

5) How pacifism really ISNíT the best way to win a war when the other side is intent on killing you and your friends.

6) How Dumbledore, the wise and powerful general was smart enough to leave behind a feasible plan and all the information his followers needed to win the war.

7) How Dumbledore had the responsibility and the guts to deliver the hard news himself rather than leaving it to someone else.

8) How Dumbledore repaid loyalty in kind rather than leaving his most beleaguered lieutenants hanging.

I could go on, but the point is that the old messages DH delivered were done better in previous books (Ron abandoning Harry in GoF is one example) and the new messages werenít the ones we needed. Very, very few people will ever have to lay down their lives to save the world, but we all need to know how to set aside pride and admit we were wrong. We all need to know how to forgive, how to accept others with compassion even if we donít like them, how to work with people we have nothing in common with. That is what HP promised and failed to deliver.

quote:
I know the initial reaction from some was that it was great for the gay community. But when you read the books on Dumbledore's story and listen to what JKR said about him, he lived a very lonely life, sounds like he was probably celibate. That's not much of a ringing victory for the gays, IMO.
Thatís an excellent point! Dumbledore really isnít a hopeful example of gay life. Ugh, what a terrible debacle all the way around.

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"Always"

Edited by - Theowyn on 03/24/2010 17:11:06
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gimu
Addled

Ireland
209 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2010 :  16:16:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hi everyone - I hope you are all enjoying life! I'm planning my wedding at the moment. Exciting stuff, even though it is almost a year away! let's hope I stay as excited! trying to lose weight - would like to drop a dress size before the summer and the dress try-outs.
I am listening to HP series for the first time (having read each book (except DH) lots of times). I on OotP at the moment - the start of the real trouble. (I "read" HP on the exercise bike! It makes the exercise bearable).

I think JKR finished off the series as she did partly because she did not want it to be perfect - otherwise it wouldn't be real or believable (not that the magical world should be :O) ). I'm probably not going to be able to explain what I mean properly at all, but look at Avatar - the "hollywoodness" of it irritated me, even though it was wonderful to watch. The story was just too perfect for me. Others who were with me couldn't believe I was unhappy with it. I did appreciate the skill in making it 3-D though.
If I were a writer (as I wish to be), I would not want to write the perfect story which covered every angle, every point - otherwise, there would be nothing left to write. In any case, one character cannot possibly "tick all the boxes". It would actually annoy me if she had made Harry (Harry's story) perfect.
I wasn't entirely happy with DH, which is why I have only read it twice - immediately when it came out, and not too long after that. I am looking forward to listening to it. I really enjoy listening as the pace of the book is much slower than if I were reading - I have a desperate tendency to speed read. So anyway, I am wondering if the book will have improved with time and distance.

All the best to you all - hope to logon more often now.
gimu xx
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diricawl
Looney

United Kingdom
1078 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2010 :  06:10:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great news, Gimu! Who's the lucky man?

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As to the avatar, well, if you girls can all have Alan Rickman...

"They don't want the Easter Bunny's power; The children in our generation want Harry's power, and they're getting it." - Laura Mallory
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Bee
Mediwizard

846 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2010 :  12:21:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratulations, gimu!

I took today off, just because I have leave to use up by the end of March. I'm having dinner with friends later, but apart from that and a trip to the supermarket, I've had absolutely nothing to do all day, and it's been GREAT. I love my job but it's so nice having a lazy day. I've mostly just sat around reading my book and eating tea cakes. Mmm.

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Purveyor of Fine Peebles
Haggy is (probably not) Cactus!
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gimu
Addled

Ireland
209 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2010 :  14:50:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
my fiance is the same guy I've been going out with since 2002! Sounds awfully long, but we were in a long distance relationship for almost 3 years of that.
I had too much coffee today. I was at a meeting where they didn't have water, only coffee. I've a headache now.
what book are you reading Bee? I am reading "the girl with the dragon tattoo" - its an easy read so far - a real page turner. Last book I read wasn't quite that - Steven Erikson, Gardens of the moon. The author writes in the that he doesn't make it easy for his readers - I had to read slowly, and even re-read parts in order to follow it.
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2010 :  19:20:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gimu, what great news!! Congratulations on your engagement, but don't stress over losing weight. You'll look terrific in your wedding dress regardless.

I also wasn't a huge fan of Avalon because it was utterly cliche. Was there anyone who didn't have the entire plot worked out five minutes into the movie?

But I can't believe JKR intentionally left plot threads hanging in DH. The epilogue alone shows that she wasn't going for an edgy "Sopranos" ending, but in fact meant to tie everything up neatly. She didn't.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2010 :  11:06:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Congratualtions, gimu!
Happy Lazy Day, Bee!

Am trying to cram as much into each school day as I can. We're going to the PNW again in early May, which leaves only one month to make it as far along in the curriculum as we can to prevent having to devote another month to school once we return. I'm really looking forward to having the summer "free."

Deliberatley causing mayhem in Snape's Potions class.
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Bee
Mediwizard

846 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2010 :  12:56:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just finished my book, gimu - it was American Wife by Curtis Sittenfeld. Someone bought it for me - I probably wouldn't have picked it myself - but I actually really enjoyed it, but with some misgivings. It's a novel based on Laura Bush's life, and the idea of borrowing so heavily from someone's actual life to create a work of fiction is something I find vaguely creepy - like if it ever happened to me I'd be really freaked out. Although, if it ever happened to me I doubt anyone would read it - I don't think my life would make a particularly interesting novel.

Have you set a date for the wedding yet? Have you decided to have it at home or abroad?

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Purveyor of Fine Peebles
Haggy is (probably not) Cactus!
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diricawl
Looney

United Kingdom
1078 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2010 :  02:50:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just in case you didn't know already, the world has gone completely mad.

http://www.dundalkdemocrat.ie/dundalknews/Leprechauns-in-Carlingford-and-Cooley.6097631.jp

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As to the avatar, well, if you girls can all have Alan Rickman...

"They don't want the Easter Bunny's power; The children in our generation want Harry's power, and they're getting it." - Laura Mallory
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Bee
Mediwizard

846 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2010 :  07:56:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ha! That's amazing. I've been to Carlingford before - never saw any leprechauns though. I feel cheated!

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2010 :  20:13:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been able to sit and read a little bit today! So it's been a month and a half since my last post on my reread project and I've finished PS and am a little over half through CS. Had a shivers moment this evening! Remember when Harry has the diary and doesn't throw it away even though there seems to be no reason to keep it?
quote:
Harry couldn't explain, even to himself, why he didn't just throw Riddle's diary away. The fact was that even though he knewthe diary was blank, he kept absent-mindedly picking it up and turning the pages, as though it was a story he wanted to finish. And while Harry was sure he had never heard the name T. M. Riddle before, it still seemed to mean something to him, almost as though Riddle was a friend he'd had when he was very small, and half-forgotten.
Chills. The little bit of Voldemort surfacing again just like the snake incident at the dueling club, though much more subtle.

Deliberatley causing mayhem in Snape's Potions class.
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2010 :  23:15:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I love these sorts of subtle hints. Wonderful. And don't forget the most chilling of all:

"Unless I'm much mistaken, he [LV] transferred some of his own powers to you the night he gave you that scar. Not something he intended to do, I'm sure..."
"Voldemort put a bit of himself in me?"
"It certainly seems so."

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2010 :  08:24:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I started reading PofA a couple of days ago. The atmosphere is really taking hold now. Still love Lupin-- and Snape in a dress! Crookshanks is trully cool!

Deliberatley causing mayhem in Snape's Potions class.
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2010 :  12:29:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
PoA is my favorite! That's where we finally realize that all of Harry's problems were born of the rivalry between the Marauders and Snape. That adds such depth to the story.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 05/07/2010 :  12:03:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Finished PoA last night, but as I'm traveling may not be able to move forward with GoF for a little while. I have to see if Mum has a copy. I'm pretty sure she bought OotP and DH. But I think she read my copy of GoF.

PoA: Loved it! probably more now than when I originally read it. These early books are so enjoyable. Reading all the little clues that are hidden away and subtly hinted at is lots of fun. The characters are still growing/developing (not regressing). We don't know enough at this point in the series to make any harsh judgements about characters we like. I still feel for Snape. He's so bitter-- just can't let it go-- which is why he ultimately acted as he did. It's such a waste.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2010 :  15:39:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

I still feel for Snape. He's so bitter-- just can't let it go-- which is why he ultimately acted as he did. It's such a waste.

This is exactly the sentiment we're meant to take away from PoA and yet to a large degree it is a false impression. Snape is not stuck because of a school boy grudge, but because of Lily.

In Snape's mind, James stole Lily from him and then did the unforgivable: he arrogantly trusted the wrong person and got Lily killed (Snape says as much in the Shrieking Shack). So of course he hates the man.

Harry is the son of this hated rival by the woman Snape loved, to say nothing of a constant reminder of Lily's loss and his own unbearable guilt. I doubt there's a man alive who wouldn't despise the boy in Snape's place.

As for Sirius, well he killed Lily, so it goes without saying that Snape would love to see him tortured slowly to death. When the truth comes out that Sirius didn't betray the Potters, but came up with the brilliant idea to switch Secret Keepers, it's hardly any better. He's just one more arrogant fool who cost Lily her life. The fact that Sirius hates Snape just as much (and for no particularly good reason) doesn't help matters.

Snape doesn't hate Remus; he just considers him weak, dangerous and untrustworthy. In PoA he worries that Remus is in league with Sirius - none of which is terribly unreasonable.

Yes, it would have been lovely if Snape could have moved beyond the tragedy of his past, but there was no hope of that while he was at Hogwarts, steeped in all those memories and regrets; and certainly not with Harry serving as a constant knife in his gut.

What the man needed was to move to Canada or some such and forget he'd ever heard of James and Lily Potter, Voldemort, etc.

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"Always"

Edited by - Theowyn on 05/17/2010 15:43:10
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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2010 :  00:16:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn

quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

I still feel for Snape. He's so bitter-- just can't let it go-- which is why he ultimately acted as he did. It's such a waste.

This is exactly the sentiment we're meant to take away from PoA and yet to a large degree it is a false impression. Snape is not stuck because of a school boy grudge, but because of Lily.
I actually meant his bitterness over losing Lily, but it works either way. I initally felt badly for him as planned (Snape was nearly killed by James & Co. = bitterness), but now that the final chapters have been published, I can still feel for him on a deeper level. Rowling had to hide Lily's role as long as she could, but the unfortunate situation was compounded by her "joining" the Marauders = bitterness. Snape still sees James as the catalyst for that = bitterness. While Snape hates James deeply, he also wanted to be like him-- which of course he hates himself for = bitterness. James & Co. made life at school at the very least uncomfortable = bitterness. His bitterness is so deep and comes from so many different angles, that's what makes him such a real character. Innocent lives were ruined/extinguished; all of it such a waste.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2010 :  14:54:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree completely; a tragic waste! Youíre absolutely right about all the interconnected reasons for Snapeís bitterness and I too feel bad for him. What I was trying to get at though was the issue of Snape ďletting it goĒ which is the almost constant mantra of PoA. In the context of that book, where the old schoolboy rivalry is all we know about, the admonishment coming from every side makes sense. ďYes, the marauders were pricks and Sirius crossed the line with that Shrieking Shack incident, but itís been 20 years, Severus! Let it go!Ē

Given the full story though, thatís not a legitimate expectation. Snape could no more let go of his bitterness than James and Lily could come back from the dead. Thatís important because the blame Ė or wistful sorrow Ė over the horrible, slow-motion train wreck of these peopleís lives typically falls on Snape. If only he could let go and move on then his life and Harryís and everyone elseís would be so much better.

Thatís true, but itís also true that if James and Lily hadnít died everyoneís lives would be better too. And itís true that Snape has no more power to choose to let go than the Potters have to return from beyond the veil. Snape is a deeply real character. As such he can choose to side with the Light and to follow Dumbledoreís orders. He can choose to protect Harry. He cannot choose to change his deepest feelings or the way those feelings color his view of others.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 05/18/2010 16:35:27
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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2010 :  18:09:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ah, but that personal guilt is so hard to let go of. It requires forgiving ones self-- not easy to do in the smallest of matters. Let's face it, Snape's mistake wasn't a trivial one. It cost so many lives, Lily's in particular, that I'm not sure he could ever forgive himself. More and more it seems as though moving on, getting over it, or letting go just isn't an option for the man.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2010 :  14:35:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Exactly! Snape wasn't capable of letting it go - certainly not given the circumstances he was in. If he had survived the war, he might have been able to move on since he had fulfilled his duty to Lily by protecting Harry and seeing Voldemort killed. I'd like to think he could have found some peace because, in truth, his mistake saved far more lives than it cost. Snape was responsible for the Potters' deaths and the insanity of the Longbottoms. But he was also responsible for 13 years of peace while Voldemort languished as a disembodied soul. There's no telling how many people might have been killed during those years had the war continued unabated, but it's fair to guess the number would have been considerably greater than four.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2010 :  16:16:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have you read Shutter Island? I know this sounds like topic hijacking or piracy (), but it's not entirely. Give it a try if you haven't. It's readily available at the library since it's not a new book. I've not seen the movie yet, but am anxious to. Without going into detail, there is a similar guilt factor at work in that story.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2010 :  00:43:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, I didn't even realize Shutter Island was a book. I haven't seen the movie either, but I'll definitely look for the book. Thanks for the recommendation.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2010 :  12:34:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After reading the book, I wasn't happy with the way they marketed the movie. The adverts made it seem like a hack and slash horror story, which it is not. It is more of a Hitchcockian psych thriller.
Be warned it will pull you in for a very quick read especially if you like mysteries. When you read it, let me know as it ties into our conversation about guilt.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2010 :  18:24:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, I love Hitchcock and mysteries in general. I have ordered the book from our library (all the copies are out at the moment), but I'm sure I'll make fast work of it once I get it. I'll let you know as soon as I've read it.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2010 :  10:34:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So I've been thinking about Dumbledore (rather than reading). Do we know when exactly he started believing that Voldie had been making horcruxes? CoS gives us our first quote regarding leaving a piece of himself in Harry. Dumbledore's interest in Harry's sorting gives us a possible earlier date for concern. It's just that his suspicion goes a long way to explaining his being less than open with Harry throughout the series (which always irked me), in particular in OotP. We can't expect Harry to understand this while it is happening to him, but looking at it from D's point of view, it makes what he does more understandable.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2010 :  15:58:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I personally think DD knew the night James and Lily died. He knew Harry's scar was a curse scar that would never fade and he was awfully certain that LV wasn't gone for good. Also, in DH when we see the memory of DD telling Snape about Harry being a Horcrux, the revelation is vivid. DD describes the event as though he had actually witnessed it. Whether he used Legilimency on baby Harry or had some sort of monitoring set up at the Potters' home, he clearly has intimate knowledge of what happened that night.

But I'm not sure how that relates to DD keeping secrets from Harry to say nothing of lying to the boy. Of course he wasn't going to tell an 11-year-old boy that he was a Horcrux, but that shouldn't have prevented him from sharing other information. The same is true in OotP. Harry didn't need to know why he had a mental connection with LV, but he should have been told how LV might exploit that connection.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 06/07/2010 15:59:14
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Siobhan
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Posted - 06/08/2010 :  13:12:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If DD was uncertain the extent of Harry's and Voldemort's connection, then he couldn't be sure that anything he told Harry would be safe regardless of will. Once V knew of the connection the risk of exploitation increased substantially. Dd could neither risk V knowing just what a panic everyone was in, nor let any chance of sensitive information slipping through. Snape, in particular, would have been endangered by Harry having any information that might get through.

I've started GoF this week. So far it's still my favorite. I think it's because it so clearly marks the middle of the series. The opening sets us up for something entirely different. Sure we still have the retrieval of Harry from Privet Drive, and plenty of scenes of the Dursleys' continued animosity to everything magic, but the story begins on such a dark note. Harry's innocent childhood is torn away bit by bit-- makes a nice change from the first two books.

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Theowyn
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Posted - 06/09/2010 :  11:38:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

If DD was uncertain the extent of Harry's and Voldemort's connection, then he couldn't be sure that anything he told Harry would be safe regardless of will. Once V knew of the connection the risk of exploitation increased substantially. Dd could neither risk V knowing just what a panic everyone was in, nor let any chance of sensitive information slipping through. Snape, in particular, would have been endangered by Harry having any information that might get through.
I might believe this if DD didn't have the habit of spilling the beans at the end of every year. If he was that concerned about Harry channeling LV then why share that critical bit of info at the end of CoS?

"Unless I'm much mistaken, he [LV] transferred some of his own powers to you the night he gave you that scar. Not something he intended to do, I'm sure..."
"Voldemort put a bit of himself in me?"
"It certainly seems so."

Hint, hint, Tom.

Then there's all the stuff LV already knew, like why he wanted to kill Harry and get his hands on the prophecy. What harm could it have done for Harry to know this stuff too?

I'm in no way suggesting that DD should have shared Order secrets or strategy with Harry. The boy was a lousy Occlumens. But everyone would have benefitted if Harry had been given appropriate information in a timely manner instead of being kept in the dark.

quote:
I've started GoF this week. So far it's still my favorite. I think it's because it so clearly marks the middle of the series. The opening sets us up for something entirely different. Sure we still have the retrieval of Harry from Privet Drive, and plenty of scenes of the Dursleys' continued animosity to everything magic, but the story begins on such a dark note. Harry's innocent childhood is torn away bit by bit-- makes a nice change from the first two books.
I really like GoF, too. This is the first time we actually encounter LV as something more than a wraith and he is seriously evil. The graveyard scene is one of the best JKR ever wrote. I think it's FAR superior to the forest scene in DH.

On the other hand, the scene with the Weasleys at Privet Drive is hilarious. Honestly, can we really blame the Dursleys for hating magic when all it ever seems to cause is mayhem?

Moody/Crouch as the wolf in sheep's clothing is one of the great DADA teachers, too - a sort of improved version of Quirrel.

And of course this is where we learn that Snape not only bears the Dark Mark, but is a spy for Dumbledore in the Death Eater ranks. Great stuff!

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Edited by - Theowyn on 06/09/2010 11:43:10
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Theowyn
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Posted - 06/16/2010 :  19:28:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

After reading the book, I wasn't happy with the way they marketed the movie. The adverts made it seem like a hack and slash horror story, which it is not. It is more of a Hitchcockian psych thriller.
Be warned it will pull you in for a very quick read especially if you like mysteries. When you read it, let me know as it ties into our conversation about guilt.

I just finished Shutter Island and really enjoyed it. It's a great story about what guilt can do to a person and Teddy is clearly worse off than Snape. My older son has seen the movie and told me the final scene is a bit different. After the last line of the book, Teddy asks Chuck, "Is it better to live as a monster or die an innocent man?" before being led away - which of course changes everything and nothing. Whether consciously or subconsciously, Teddy can't live with his past.

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Siobhan
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Posted - 06/16/2010 :  22:25:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
At first I felt the ending was sad and was a little disappointed that Teddy hadn't snapped out of it, but then I thought about it a bit. I'm not sure that living with that kind of guilt would be preferable to living in a fantasy that the mind creates to take the edge off, so to speak. I also looked up transorbital lobotomy and found it was not necessarily as horrible a fate as it might seem. At the time the story was set, lobotomies were not uncommon. There were even travelling lobotomy doctors. Most people did not become "vegetables" but did experience changes in their personality. So perhaps, in Teddy's, case the outlook was not quite as bleak as it might seem. He certainly could not go out into the world as he was-- too dangerous.

quote:
Ah, but that personal guilt is so hard to let go of. It requires forgiving ones self-- not easy to do in the smallest of matters. Let's face it, Snape's mistake wasn't a trivial one. It cost so many lives, Lily's in particular, that I'm not sure he could ever forgive himself. More and more it seems as though moving on, getting over it, or letting go just isn't an option for the man.
In reference to Snape, we have a similar case of living with the guilt of the deaths he was directly and indirectly responsible. I'm not sure that I would have wanted Snape to be left to live with that burden. There's no one but Snape who can relieve it. Guilt drives so much of what Snape does and is. I'm not sure he could have gone on once his purpose was fulfilled.

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