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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  16:52:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not THAT Chair! Sorry, we had a small problem with the paint drips from the Snape-board and they're still wet. Here, try this chair.

Thanks UNP - I'll check it out! I was thinking DD would leave something behind - like his Pensieve or his Diary or something that would allow Harry to read DD's experience. But - if DD did travel forward, then Harry could have warned him about the false locket and then he might.. not.. have.. needed to die in the first place, in which case he'd still alive at the time point to which he travelled forward. See what I mean? For DD to know when he should time-travel forward, he'd also have to know the approx date of his death, in advance. He also have to decide not to explain everything before that point, which would be a strange decision. I mean - why time-travel when you can just sit down with a cuppa? Unless he used the time-turner in Book 5 when he didn't know if he could trust Harry.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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dobbygirl
Barmy

USA
300 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  21:20:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Didn't JKR say that she wasn't going to use time travel again because it was such a headache? I looked for the actual quote (I couldn't find it) but I thought I remember reading something like that.

Personally, I think that DD would've left his pensieve and several little bottles full of memories. And I'm guessing he would've left them with his brother.

Proud member of SINUS

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dobbygirl
Barmy

USA
300 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  03:09:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by U-No-Poo

There's this website, boo7.co.uk, I think, which has taken all the clues from the books and interviews and put up a chapter-by-chapter summary of book 7. Very amusing read, I recommend it.



Ooops you missed a letter there. The site is book7.co.uk and yes it is a very amusing read. Some of the theories are out there. I don't think she'll use that much time travelling, if she uses it at all and some minor characters have too big of a role in the down fall of Voldemort. And I definately don't think Snape will go out the way they say (sooooo cheesy). One thing I think they nailed: where Sirius's flying motorbike ended up.

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U-No-Poo
Addled

133 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  03:52:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AMC
But - if DD did travel forward, then Harry could have warned him about the false locket.


The website explains it this way: Dumbledore already had the locket-horcrux; he got it from Aberforth after his meeting with Mundungus. The whole business in the cave was just for show. Future!Dumbledore presents the locket Horcrux to Harry as final proof of what he's been saying about Snape being good and his death being planned and they destroy it together.
JKR said that none of the characters we've met are time-travelling ones (i.e. Dumbledore/ Voldermort/Ron-and-Hermione's-son from the future), but she did not exclude the possibilty of time-travelling happening again. That said, I also agree that alot of the things on the website are out there and I don't think there will be that much time-travelling. I even don't really like the idea of Dumbledore planning his death like that either (not to mention Snape being good!), but it's still a cool idea, as it allows Harry to say goodbye *sniff*.

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Edited by - U-No-Poo on 02/15/2007 03:57:18
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  14:47:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay, I find the whole concept of that trip to the Cave being for show a HUGELY improbable plot twist. Hey Harry, let me scare you silly, risk your life and let a bunch of DEs into the Castle so I can prove a point to you some time after my soon-to-be violent death which you can't possibly understand until I come back later to explain. Dumbledore's not the best communicator in the world (Mr Ben cheers somewhere) but he's not THAT bad!


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  14:57:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's PARTY time!!! It's birthday party for dobbygirl (and I guess me too, belatedly). Heck, let's celebrate everyone's birthday!



*Hangs a HAPPY BIRTHDAY Banner across the SINUS Wall of Fame*

*Puts a party hat on the Snape Board, he scowls harder*

*Charms up some steaming blue drinks*

Cheers everyone!



And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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Newguise
Barmy

United Kingdom
269 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2007 :  02:50:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
*dumps a crate of ale on the nearest table*

might try one of these blues ones as well.

Shall we have a darts match to round off the evening? Once we are all nicely relaxed and there is a bit of a crowd here, of course, maybe we could divide into two teams.

*sits on the wet paint chair*

Nuggy
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Newguise
Barmy

United Kingdom
269 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2007 :  16:43:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I *hic* think there migh be un ale left under here smmwhere *hic* some bottles went under the chair *hic*

Nuggy xxx
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2007 :  19:20:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is summair.. must be summair. *Looks around* Why is the room going round and round? I'm getting zizzy. ziddy. ziffy. something.



And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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n/a
deleted

1483 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2007 :  21:41:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The usual level of highbrow conversation, I see?

I'd better take an ale with one of those fizzy blue chasers. Looks like I have some catching up to do.
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Newguise
Barmy

United Kingdom
269 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2007 :  02:37:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Urrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh

I think a small animal may have crawled into my mouth and died. Might just lie here for a while....
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Slushy
Giddy

37 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2007 :  11:00:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
*tiptoes in*

*discards empty bottles and clears dirty glasses*

*sets out trays of steaming tea and coffee*

*arranges warm muffins and scones on serving platter*

*brings out pitcher or ice water and bottles of aspirin and ibuprofen, just in case*

*tiptoes out*


Proud House-elf of S.I.N.U.S.
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Jokelly
Barking

USA
1509 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2007 :  11:23:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
*looks around*

Why are we all hungover in here and how did I miss it?

Current location: Laying low at Lupin's
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Newguise
Barmy

United Kingdom
269 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2007 :  12:49:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
muffins...life is worth living again

Slushy you are a STAR

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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2007 :  14:28:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Muffins and coffee - I'm saved!

Slushy, not to be unoriginal but.. you are the Best.
*realizes she has more than one wished she could marry Slushy* *Is not sure if this is a healthy mind-set*

Sorry, Jo - we had a February Birthday bash. All I know is something in the Blue drinks kind of super-charged the Ale Nuggy brought. We started dancing.... my memory is a little dim after the first round of the Bunny Hop. I think we're all accounted for.



And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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Newguise
Barmy

United Kingdom
269 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2007 :  17:01:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Everything went blue that is all I remember. We are all still accounted for because no one could find the darts. I think Slushy may have been in on that.

Nuggy xxx
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n/a
deleted

1483 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2007 :  14:04:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It must have been a great party, because when I got here I was merely barmy, but now I'm confunded! Way to go blue steamy drinks!

Edited by - n/a on 02/20/2007 14:07:28
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2007 :  18:57:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Apparently we need a new type of drink - poor Nuggy's still just Addled. Hmm... where's that potions book? And whose birthday is next?

So - on the poll-less poll question - when do we start asking people to commit on the big issues? And which are the Big Issues?

I'd propose one as:

Harry's Fate:
<> He's cactus (that's dead)
<> He will live on, happily ever after
<> He will live but he will have lost something critical to his happiness.
<> Other


Perhaps another as:

Dumbledore:
<> Wise old all-knowing Dude.
<> Good wizard, made huge mistakes.
<> Will turn out to be far less wise and/or good than Harry thinks.
<> Is Evil.
<> Other

I just think it'd be fun to get the really big issues voted on.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.


Edited by - AMC on 02/20/2007 18:57:57
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dobbygirl
Barmy

USA
300 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2007 :  06:58:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Man, I missed the party....total bummer. I had to work on my birthday, by myself no less (usually there's two supervisors on a shift). I so could've used a party.

Proud member of SINUS

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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2007 :  12:21:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We can start it up again! <- Party Wizard

Happy Birthday to Yooou...
Happy Birthday to Yooou...
Happy Birthday Dear Dobbygirl...
Happy Birthday to Yooou...!!!!


*Starts another round of beverages circulating*


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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n/a
deleted

1483 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2007 :  14:14:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
*helps herself to a crackling red drink*
*steam pours from ears*

Mmmmmm ... spicy!

We can't forget the obvious question:

Snape:

<> Dumbledore's man through and through
<> Voldemort's man through and through
<> His own man through and through
<> Flawed and fallen, but still capable of a noble act
<> Evil to the core
<> Other
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Newguise
Barmy

United Kingdom
269 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2007 :  14:23:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ales under the chair! Rootle around and you may well come up trumps.

Big Questions?

I can't think of any - I'm drunk.

*hic*

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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2007 :  15:10:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You know, since Gothy left us we haven't had a town drunk - I'm officially nominating Newguise.

I think with Snape we'd have to layout combination scenarios:

Snape:

<> Dumbledore's man, will help Harry out.
<> Voldemort's man, through and through.
<> His own man, but will help Harry in the end.
<> His own man, but will hinder Harry in the end.
<> Evil to the core, just write him off.
<> Other

Or even...

Snape:

<> Will die helping Harry in a noble way.
<> Will help Harry and be redeemed, living on as a changed man.
<> Will die supporting Voldemort.
<> Will be condemned to Azkaban for the murder of DD.
<> Will slink off into hiding in the end.
<> Will die without ever clarifying who the heck he was helping out.
<> Will not die, will slither out of charges related to DD's death and will live on as a free man, but still no one will know the real story.
<> Evil to the core, just write him off.
<> Other


*Grabs a steaming Magenta potion and starts to sing reggae like Bunny Wailer*

We'll get our breakfast from the tree
We'll get our honey from the bees
We'll take a ride on the waterfalls
And all the glories, we'll have them all..





And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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Newguise
Barmy

United Kingdom
269 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2007 :  02:53:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I see a pink dancing elephant.

Must remember to drink fewer odd coloured drinks.

Snape:

<>Oportunist whose actions are guided by circumstance rather than loyalty to anyone (including himself).

Why can't I manage succinct ones like AMC?

Theowyn would not like me for saying this, but I see a lot of what Snape, and indeed Dumbledore do being motivated by the effect these things have on Harry. Yes, Jo is a good writer, and she can juggle lots of charcters that act in ways which remain true to an idea of personality, but for me Snape killing DD happened PRIMARILY because Harry had to see it occur. Yes it can also tell me stuff about Snape and about DD too, but the most significant element of that whole debacle was that Harry witnessed the whole thing.

I shall have to be seconded to take up position as town drunk. Maybe I can come up with a good euphemism for it.
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2007 :  13:05:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's an interesting perspective - but Why? Why did Harry have to see DD die? Or rather, why did Harry have to see Snape murder DD? I think you're probably right - honestly, poor Harry has witnessed every important death in the books - but why? What does the witnessing of DD's death give Harry? Rage? Focus? He had those in spades after Sirus's death.

Perhaps it's a measure of Harry's personal growth - the first set of important deaths happened before he had any ability to comprehend them. The second - Sirius's - made him erupt into anger and irrational rage - no wait, he was that way beforehand. Heck. Well, it made him more so. This last death - Dumbledore's - filled him immediately with rage and grief but that quickly turned into a determination to fulfill his duty. He's not yet mature but he has grown up quite a bit in the last 2 books. But is that the only reason why Harry had to witness DD's death?

It's interesting - if you view most of the plot of HP as how things had to happen to further Harry's path I think you do take a different perspective on the books. This is his story - his parents had to die so he could be "the hero alone". Fighting both public opinion, the basilisk and the horcrux of Tom Riddle in book 2 established his role as outsider hero, who had to make his own way. Book 3 gave him an opportunity to learn and practice compassion and come to grips with the tradgedy of his past. I have no idea what he learned in Book 4. The MoM action and Sirius's death (combined with Luna and Sir Nicolas's talks at the end of book 5) showed to him that the afterworld exists and that those brave enough do move on from this world and those not brave enough... don't. Book 6 has given him the final freedom - both his mentor and his tomentor are gone. He's declared himself out of Hogwarts and the protection of his Muggle home dissolves when he turns 17. So Book 7 is all about what a hero, essentially alone and unafraid of death, does to complete his heroic mission.

It's all about Harry.

Although one twist on the traditional hero story is that Harry, for all he has to go it alone, is not alone. He has developed close friendships and one of his strengths is his ability to draw people together and heal rifts. And I think that will be tremendously important. So while he is alone in his ultimate fate he will not be alone in his fight.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.


Edited by - AMC on 02/22/2007 13:08:28
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Newguise
Barmy

United Kingdom
269 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2007 :  14:19:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Book 4 was all about training to face up to difficult and unknown challenges, and to hold your own in a competitive fight.

Harry had to see Sirius die because without that loss he wouldn't have been able to expel Voldemort from him when he occupied his body. We have yet to see exactly what DD's death gave him, the determination is there, but I think there is more.

It may have given him Draco, who might have some useful information.

It IS all about Harry - Harry Potter and the.... being the big clue

Nuggy
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2007 :  14:59:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Newguise

Theowyn would not like me for saying this, but I see a lot of what Snape, and indeed Dumbledore do being motivated by the effect these things have on Harry. Yes, Jo is a good writer, and she can juggle lots of charcters that act in ways which remain true to an idea of personality, but for me Snape killing DD happened PRIMARILY because Harry had to see it occur. Yes it can also tell me stuff about Snape and about DD too, but the most significant element of that whole debacle was that Harry witnessed the whole thing.


Nuggy, why on earth do you think I wouldn't like you saying this? I agree with you entirely! Harry had to see Snape kill DD because he has to hate Snape utterly, with every fiber of his being and be absolutely convinced that Snape is working for Voldemort.

This is essential because Harry has to descend into the darkness himself and be tested before he can emerge from it, purified, and thereby conquer it. Voldemort is the embodiment of hate. Harry has to embrace his own hatred and then overcome it in order to be able to vanquish Voldemort.

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s.i.n.e. qua non

"Always"

Edited by - Theowyn on 02/22/2007 18:36:50
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n/a
deleted

1483 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2007 :  19:37:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AMC

It's an interesting perspective - but Why? Why did Harry have to see DD die? Or rather, why did Harry have to see Snape murder DD? I think you're probably right - honestly, poor Harry has witnessed every important death in the books - but why?


Well, this is probably a very simplistic reason, but the books are written from Harry's perspective. Harry had to witness those deaths so we, the readers, could witness them too. There is no better way to present events of such importance than to take the readers there in person. And it was just as important for us to see Sirius and Dumbledore die as it was for Harry, because we were emotionally involved with them too. We needed to see exactly what Harry saw and feel what exactly Harry felt to experience the story properly.

I like the synopsis of Harry's personal growth as each year (book) passes. I think it's important at this point not to infantilize him anymore. Although seems young to us geezers, he will be an adult wizard in the next book, and he has the experience to back it up. I was especially impressed by the maturity, leadership, and frankly good instinct that he showed at most times in HBP. The scales really started to tip in his favor and I only expect him to be stronger in DH.

Harry has an amazing ability to take the negative experiences in life and turn them into strengths. The deaths of his parents strenghtened his ability to love and show compassion. Cedric's death strenghtened his determination to do the right thing rather than the easy thing. Sirius's death cemented in him the meaning of honor. And I think that in an odd way, Dumbledore's death will increase Harry's self-confidence. Dumbledore placed his strongest faith in Harry, much more than in anyone else (Arthur, Minerva, Snape, and even himself). Harry knew this, and seeing the sacrifice Dumbledore made for him will help him pick up the torch and be the leader Dumbledore knew he could be.

Yes, Harry will no doubt have to learn to deal with his anger and emnity toward Snape, but I don't see that being a huge, showpiece feature of the next book. I see it more as a sub-plot, one that will make him a stronger person by eliminating a stumbling block. However, I think the focus of the book will be more about seeing Harry's natural abilities come to fruition as he becomes the hero his is destined to be.

Edited by - n/a on 02/22/2007 19:40:33
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  00:57:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think that's already been dealt with, honestly - at the end of HBP, Harry says he has a job to do - to get the Horcruxes and kill Voldemort and that's his priority. If he meets Snape on the way, it's a bonus. He's not out hunting Snape, he's got more important things to do. Hmm... Snape hunting - sounds like a traditional English sporting pursuit.

You're probably right, Pixie - DD's death is an important death to all of us readers which couldn't be done "off-stage" the way that the deaths of Amelia Bones and Emmeline Vance were.

It's funny, I always like things to be symbolically balanced and with 7 books in the series I keep thinking Book 4 should be a critical turning point, as it's the center of the series. Yes, Voldy came back to life in book 4 so that's a big deal... but of all the books in the series it seems like GoF is the one in which Harry progresses the least... but perhaps all that action/adventure that looks like filler now will come in handy later on.

So what other big questions do we have:

Bellatrix:
<> Will go down in flames as Voldy's strongest and most loyal supporter.
<> Will learn the truth about Tom Riddle's heritage and turn against him
<> Won't play a role in Book 7
<> Other

Harry's scar:
<> 7th Horcrux
<> Use a little foundation and it'll hardly be noticeable
<> Other

Tom Riddle will:
<> Die at Harry's hand
<> Die at Neville's hand
<> Die at Bellatrix's hand
<> Die at Snape's hand
<> Self-Implode after making a bad decision
<> Live long and prosper
<> Other

The 4 Hogwarts Houses will:
<> Unite to fight off Voldemort.
<> Declare war against each other, with the Slytherins eventually being defeated.
<> Be dissolved entirely.



And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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n/a
deleted

1483 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  18:43:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Viktor Krum will:

<> Use his Durmstrang education to help fight Voldemort
<> Play seeker for Bulgaria happily ever after
<> Become the new DADA Professor at Hogwarts
<> Try to win Hermione back from Ron
<> Market his own line of quidditch supplies
<> Other
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