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 Snape is a Nasty, Underhanded Slimeball (SINUS)
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n/a
deleted

1483 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2006 :  15:03:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Bella was Regulus's fast-track link to Voldemort's inner circle. Regulus himself wasn't in that far, but as Bellatrix's little sidekick, he would have had access to information and activities that most other Death Eaters didn't. Bella, who would have been so proud to give her own sons up to the service of the Dark Lord, probably encouraged and forwarded her cousin's interests just as she supported Draco in Book 6. Think of the things she could have taught him: occlumency, dark arts, unforgivable curses ...

Voldemort, who consistently underestimates youth, probably didn't worry too much about Regulus. However, Voldemort doesn't hesitate to use youngsters when it suits his purpose. (Remember the 10-year old who was imperiused to kill his own parents?), so he may well have tolerated Bella's interest in the boy as long as he was useful for something. Bella likewise would not have hesitated to put him in danger if it suited their purpose. That could be how he got close enough to the locket horcrux to switch it with the fake.

All this ties back to Bellatrix and love. Her love for her family along with with her obsessive devotion to the Dark Lord and his evil cause may have combined to both empower Regulus and to repulse him, respectively. Her love and obsession may very well have played an essential part in destroying one seventh of Voldemort's soul.

That calls for another firewhisky!

*takes another swing at the pinata*

*misses again*


Edited by - n/a on 12/30/2006 15:07:12
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2006 :  00:45:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Whew! Sorry to be so uncharacteristically silent - I had to drive up to the extended family Christmas and I just got back.

I think Bella's obsession devotion to Voldy ties into her strong resemblance to Mrs. Black - they're both fixated on the superiority of pure-bloods. JKR once said that Voldy attracted three kinds of followers - I think they were the ambitious, the violent and the cowardly. The Black and Malfoy families definitely follow Voldemort because they believe he will put the pure-bloods in charge of the Wizarding world. The fact that he is the "Dark Lord" is all fine and dandy but what matters to them is what he will do for them - put them, the Superior wizards, into power and allow them to wipe out the people they detest - Mud-bloods and Muggles.

So I think her love is also a reflection of her pride and self-love - she has given herself over to Voldemort's cause because of her own sense of innate superiority. She thinks all the DEs should be as dedicated and despises those who didn't give their all during Voldemort's first reign. I can definitely see her as Voldemort's key recruiter at Hogwarts and at home - she and Barty Crouch seem to have been his most vocal and loyal supporters. And who better to sponsor a cousin? I wonder a little at Sirius's somewhat dismissive evaluation of his brother - Regulus muct have been a very brave and strong young wizard - anyone who would essentially volunteer to end his own life by taking on one of Voldemort's horcruxes isn't a nebbish.

I think there has to be a relevation at some point in Book 7 of Voldemort's true parentage. He took the bone of his father for rebirth, right? So it's not like the DEs don't know who his father is. How can they still think he's a pure-blood? But Bella definitely does. I wonder if that bone of the father was part of Dumbledore's flash of triumph at the end of GoF - I've always assumed, since it was followed by a look of great sorrow, that the triumph involved the fact that Harry's blood was used.. but maybe not.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2007 :  02:50:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pixie, I just read Wuthering Heights again! I was looking for a book to take to along on my trip and WH was the perfect choice! Man, that's a great book. As I was reading it, I hit many passages and thought "Hmmm - compare and contrast with HP", it definitely made me take notice of some things. There's the passage where Catherine is speaking to Isabella and describing Heathcliff saying, essentially, "Don't think there's a good heart under that rough exterior, he's a heartless, cruel and amoral man". And I think that definitely applies to Snape - I don't dislike the character as he is written but I hate the concept put upon Snape (or Heathcliff) that somehow, under the horrible cruelty and meanness there lies a pure soul just waiting to be elevated. Heathcliff and Catherine both said it - heaven's not for them. Some people just weren't meant to be good.

I will have to say, I can see how people would be all out of patience with Emily's characters - Nelly (the servant) is fooled SO many times you can just see it coming, Linton (not Hareton, I remembered the nebbish incorrectly) is such a nasty loser, Isabella elopes with Heathcliff immediately AFTER he hangs her dog and THEN she figures out he's a jerk??? But the narrative and the characters are so interesting and so... wild. I just love it.

I wonder if Edgar Linton was a model for Ashley Wilkes? I can just see Leslie Howard in the role. I love Leslie Howard.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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n/a
deleted

1483 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2007 :  20:52:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You know, that is exactly who I always pictured when I read Edgar Linton! A young Leslie Howard, blonde curls and all.

quote:
"Don't think there's a good heart under that rough exterior, he's a heartless, cruel and amoral man".


Let's see, who does that sound like? Oh yeah! JKR talking about Snape. She's made a point to tell us he's "not too nice," a "a deeply horrible person," and that the thought of Snape in love is a "very horrible idea." JKR does say that there's hope for redemption for all her characters except Voldemort, though, but I'd say she definitely has her work cut out for her with Snape.

You might say that Heathcliff was granted a very diminshed or incomplete kind of forgiveness, in that he avoided perdition for his crimes. Not that spending eterninty as a ghost is a happy fate ... it's not ... but like you said it was fitting for such a miserable person. I love that Emily Bronte created these characters and let them be themselves, however flawed they are. No contrived moralization in this story! They are wild and uncontrolled, and they work toward their own destinies, not the author's ... yet it all works in the end.

The funny thing is that I hated WH the first time I read it, probably because it didn't fit any mold I was familiar with at age sixteen. It was only after I'd read many, many more books that I learned to appreciate what EB did with her story. Call it brave, or inexperienced, or fevered ... it is a unique bit of fiction that pushes boundaries, and I'm glad she wrote it.
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2007 :  23:59:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's always interesting to think about the Brontes as authors because they led a very sheltered, isolated life and they were the children of a reclusive, windowed minister. So in some ways the situational isolation of WH (the house) reflects the physical and social isolation they experienced. But Catherine and Heathcliff's morals! Where the heck did they come from? They are so certainly and so completely "non-good" - I won't say wicked because it's almost as if they exist outside normal society and normal laws of morality; they are from another species of human altogether than the humans that exist around them. The part I missed as a young reader tha really struck me when I studied WH in college was the voice of the narrator - it's very easy to mistake him for an innocent bystander but read a little closer and you'll find he's lazy, caddish, conceited and cruel - almost as bad as the wilder inhabitants of WH but more socially acceptable in his moral lapses.

One place where the Snape/Heathcliff parallel breaks down is the pivotal role of the obsessive desire/love. Heathcliff is intrisically amoral but in his worst behavior he is driven by the desire for revenge against the families of the area and specifically against Edgar, the man who stole his soul, his loved one - Cathy. Healthcliff was fanatically devoted to Cathy and would never have given her an insult merely because he was hanging upside down with his knickers showing. She was the one (and only) person to whom he showed nothing but devotion. The Snape-Lily connection just can't be that strong a link or it would have shown up before now. Also, Heathcliff admitted he admired Hareton - he admired his fine qualities and personal strength while he continually debased him by using "gold as paving stones"; keeping Hareton ignorant, crude and working at menial tasks. Hareton was devoted to Heathcliff and was oblivious of how badly he was used by him. Snape, on the other hand, completely despises Harry and makes that abundantly clear - he even tries to make others blind to Harry's good qualities but, unlike Heathcliff, he never really succeeds in his efforts to stunt his enemy's son's growth or success in life.

Of course, Heathcliff is the central figure of WH whereas Snape is a side character in HP. So perhaps the whole obsessive love and desire for revenge against the next generation is just a tribute to Bronte and the characters don't have to truly mirror each other. But it did make for interesting reading, especially when reading Catherine's lines - she was clearly aware of Heathcliff's failings and thought none the less of him for his being a horrible, "wolfish man". I wonder how Lily felt about Snape.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.


Edited by - AMC on 01/03/2007 00:11:44
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2007 :  00:16:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ooo - seeing the "SINUS" title reminded me of the other difference between the two that struck me strongly. Heathcliff was, on the whole, brutally honest. He pretty much announced to the world exactly what he was doing and why. He told Isabella he detested her before he married her - and she didn't believe him. He did act a part of genial uncle to Catherine (II) before he imprisoned her but other than that he was pretty much a straightforward blackguard. Snape, on the other hand, is anything but honest - we dont even know which of his many lies are lies! We know he's lied to someone(s) and maybe to everyone but we can't tell definitely that anything he says is true, except perhaps when he speaks of hating James because that alone seems to come completely from his heart.




And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2007 :  16:55:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
(is bored) *starts up an idle game of Snape Darts*

Stop moving that nose, you!


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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n/a
deleted

1483 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2007 :  10:01:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
*strolls by and smacks the Slimey One with a rolled-up newspaper, just for the principle of it.*

That felt good!
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2007 :  01:42:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
*Beams* Yes, it does. I really need a new HP book - my dislike for Snape is fading into indifference and I have so enjoyed disliking him.

You know, the movie of Book 7 is going to lose a lot of its emotional force if they don't get a new Dumbledore. I strongly dislike whats-is-name (the actor who plays Dumbledore).... and I love Alan Rickman so watching one kill the other won't really bother me. Richard Harris was a fabulous Dumbledore - if he had survived to film all the books, the Lightening Struck Tower scene would be damned hard to watch.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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dobbygirl
Barmy

USA
300 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2007 :  09:26:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ask and you shall recieve AMC! Deathly Hallows will be in your hands (hopefully) on July 21, 2007. My plan is to order from the bookstore in Marquette (if they're turning the mall into Diagon Alley again) and dress as Prof. Trelawny. If not, I'll still dress as Prof. Trelawny and go to the local bookstore. I'll also be dragging hubby and his friend Jenny with me (she's a big HP fan too, and good with costumes).

I also completely understand about new Dumbledore aka Michael Gambon. I just cannot stand him. They should've gotten Peter O'Toole when Richard Harris died. Oh, heck, just about anybody would've been better than Gambon.

*takes pic of Snape off dartboard, pins up Gambon*
*tosses dart, hits between the eyes*

I feel so much better now.

Proud member of SINUS

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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2007 :  11:33:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ooooies! Smack the Fake Dumbledore! What a great game!

Thwack Right between those irritating eyes!

Peter O'Toole would have been a fine choice or anyne else whose eyes actually can convey ageless wisdom and not simple arrogance.

I was just posting on another thread - I can't go out at midnight or I'll be up all night reading. Still, it sounds like FUN!


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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Bee
Mediwizard

846 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2007 :  17:05:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Peter O' Toole would make a fantastic Dumbledore. Of course, I said the same thing about Richard Harris, and actually wasn't too keen on his interpretation - I felt his Dumbledore was too frail, though of course, poor aul Richard was nearing his end at the time so it's hardly surprising. In hindsight, I think his Dumbledore would be ideally suited for the film adaptation of HBP, moreso than the Dumbledore of the earlier novels. If that makes any sense.

I've only seen Gambon in PoA and I thought he was pretty good, though I've a weak spot for veteran Irish actors, even if they're really as British as anything.

Order of the Bookmark
Purveyor of Fine Peebles
Haggy is (probably not) Cactus!
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dobbygirl
Barmy

USA
300 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2007 :  19:57:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just had a very strange thought. If Alan Rickman hadn't been cast as Snape, do you think he'd have made a good Dumbledore? I just can't decide, mostly because every time I try to picture Rickman in DD costume, I get the worst fit of giggles. Okay, I think I just answered my own question.

Proud member of SINUS

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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2007 :  15:34:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got the giggles too - DG. Somehow sexy Alan in the long white beard.. I don't think it's a coincidence that you rarely even see Snape wearing a pointy wizards hat, it's so not his look.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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dobbygirl
Barmy

USA
300 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2007 :  09:04:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I told hubby about my idea of Rickman being DD and he said that he just didn't look right for the part. He didn't get a fit of the giggles (or even laugh) though. Actually, now that I think about it, he rolled his eyes at me.

Proud member of SINUS

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n/a
deleted

1483 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  11:18:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think both our Dumbledores so far have had the same problem, and it's not lack of acting skill. Neither Harris nor Gambon ever actually read the books in order to truly understand the character. As a result, neither of them played a spot-on Dumbledore. Harris's performances lacked spark and spirit (which may well have been due to his illness), and Gambon simply misplayed the role in the fourth movie. I understand what he was trying to do: to show Dumbledore's lack of total control and his vulnerablility, which are important elements of the story. But had Gambon actually read the books, he might have accomplished that in a much more Dumbledore-esqe manner than yelling at Harry and pinning him to the wall. *cringes*

If Ian McKellen hadn't already been Gandalf, he could have played a great Dumbledore too. He has the eyes and the sense of humor for it. (His Gandalf might even have been a little more like Dumbledore than book-Gandalf.) I can see Peter O'Toole too ... it all depends on the effort the actor puts into the role.

I just can't imagine Alan Rickman as Dumbledore. Karkaroff, maybe. But Snape is the best role for him, even if he does play it a little soft and looks too damn good to be the Greasy Old Git.
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Bee
Mediwizard

846 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  11:40:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
He pinned Harry to a wall?! Bad Gambon!

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Purveyor of Fine Peebles
Haggy is (probably not) Cactus!
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Starling
Confunded

United Kingdom
701 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  13:27:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
*runs in*



*runs out*

I wuv multicoloured werewolf puppies.
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."
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Slushy
Giddy

37 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  14:17:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Proud House-elf of S.I.N.U.S.

Edited by - Slushy on 02/05/2007 14:20:25
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Starling
Confunded

United Kingdom
701 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  15:11:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oooh, the red eyes are a good touch.

I wuv multicoloured werewolf puppies.
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  15:13:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh I love it, Slushy. I won't even take points off for spelling - it's just beautiful! I especially like the red-eye effect added back in.



And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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Foebane
Addled

United Kingdom
102 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  18:50:34  Show Profile  Visit Foebane's Homepage  Reply with Quote
What do you mean, the "red eye effect" "added back in"? It was taken out of the original in the first place, then reinstated! Gawd!
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dobbygirl
Barmy

USA
300 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2007 :  20:32:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bravo Slushy! It's so nice to have an actual visual aid for our little dart board.

*takes careful aim*
*tosses dart*
*hits Snape in the nose*

Proud member of SINUS

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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2007 :  22:46:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like the fact that the tip of his nose is pink - it makes for a better spot for aiming. *Takes careful aim* *Hits a devil eyebrow* Hmmm, maybe I need some o' that firewhiskey..

So I was thinking we should really put up a bunch of polls before DH is published:

Snape on DD's side?
Harry Dead?
Lily's parentage important?
etc..

Should we wait for the last month so people really have to make up their minds for once and for all?



And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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n/a
deleted

1483 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  12:06:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ooh Ooh! Confirmation from JKR that we'll hear from Dumbledore again in Book 7! This from Dan Radcliffe:

"Jo came down to the set at one point and I said, 'Oh hello, why are you here today?' And she said, 'Oh I just needed a break from the book - Dumbledore's giving me a lot of trouble.' And I said, 'But isn't he dead?' And she said, 'Well, yeah, but it's more complex...' I was like, [briskly] 'OK, I'm not gonna ask anything else!'"

Most of us expected to get at least some form of explanation from Dumbledore about what really happened at the end of Half-Blood Prince. JKR's comment has me very excited about how exactly the big guy is going to make an appearance. I always thought the Phoenix had to return in some form or another ... Oh, I can't wait to see what she comes up with!
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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  13:23:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AMC

So I was thinking we should really put up a bunch of polls before DH is published...
You'll have to get creative, I'm afraid. Mad-Eye is up to his eyeball in work at the moment and the first poll mod didn't work. I'll try to see if I can get it working, but I cannot promise anything.

Deliberatley causing mayhem in Snape's Potions class.
Member of the HPEW & HPCS Appreciation Society
s.i.n.e. qua non
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  16:41:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, we can manage creative - people can post answers and we'll update the header with the results. We're easy. But you knew that...


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  16:42:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oooooies, Pixie, how exciting! YAY we get more Dumbledore!!!! YAY YAY YAY! I love Dumbledore. How many more days is it now...?



And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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U-No-Poo
Addled

133 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  10:28:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pesky Pixie

Ooh Ooh! Confirmation from JKR that we'll hear from Dumbledore again in Book 7! This from Dan Radcliffe:

"Jo came down to the set at one point and I said, 'Oh hello, why are you here today?' And she said, 'Oh I just needed a break from the book - Dumbledore's giving me a lot of trouble.' And I said, 'But isn't he dead?' And she said, 'Well, yeah, but it's more complex...' I was like, [briskly] 'OK, I'm not gonna ask anything else!'"

Most of us expected to get at least some form of explanation from Dumbledore about what really happened at the end of Half-Blood Prince. JKR's comment has me very excited about how exactly the big guy is going to make an appearance. I always thought the Phoenix had to return in some form or another ... Oh, I can't wait to see what she comes up with!



There's this website, book7.co.uk, I think, which has taken all the clues from the books and interviews and put up a chapter-by-chapter summary of book 7. Very amusing read, I recommend it. One of the theories I like the most on it is that Dumbledore, in the course of year 6, travelled forward in time, so that he can meet harry in the future (year 7) and explain the truth to him. Wouldn't that be cool? Definetely more interesting than Pensieves and Portraits!

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Edited by - U-No-Poo on 02/15/2007 03:55:45
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Newguise
Barmy

United Kingdom
269 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  14:19:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello card-carrying members (do we have a card, or just badges?) just read 10 pages of SINUS - good stuff. I like the idea that Bella's obsessive love will prove to be very destructive, although it did make me think of Gollum going over the edge into the fires of Mount Doom with the ring.

The Heathcliff discussion was cool too. Definitely have to read WH again. I read all of these books too young, I think at 14, (and I was a very sheltered 14 at that) there is too much going on that you just aren't really going to pick up.

I like the new-look dart board. In fact I might just squash down in this chair over here and enjoy looking at it.

Nuggy xxx
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