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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2007 :  18:54:25  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
O.K., I've put off making this post for several days now--and I finally realized why I'm not able to say much or even read the other posts yet. I'm in mourning, I'm too upset as we go through the build up to the end. I'm trying not to think about Harry and Snape and the final battle and everyone else. I trust you, Theo, but I'm in avoidance mode.

Briefly, the title was brilliant--not just literal giants but the giants of magic--Dumbledore, Voldemort, and HARRY.

And your device for getting Harry to talk to Snape was Totally believable--maybe the only way he would do it. And the use of the Sniffer Charm to find Harry by Snape. Wonderful.

I'm off to pretending Snape might not die in the next chapter.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2007 :  19:57:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
*Buries head in hands and cringes*

Now I know how JKR felt when that little kid asked her if DD was really dead. Ugh! It's hard enough putting Harry, Snape and company through hell. It's even worse dragging you through it too. And of course the fact that it's weeks between updates doesn't help at all, I know.

I have been squirming over this issue for the last week as I write chapter 30 because it is a very dark chapter and ends on something of a cliffhanger. So, my question to everyone is this. Should I:

1) Keep going, business as usual, release ch30, followed by ch31 a week or two later

2) Hold off on releasing ch30 until ch31 is done and then send both out together

3) Send out ch30 on schedule, but give everyone the option to email me and ask who lives and dies if they can't bear to wait two weeks to find out.

Opinions?







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Myf
Confunded

571 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2007 :  20:06:13  Show Profile  Visit Myf's Homepage  Click to see Myf's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Option 1. Be harsh! The wait will be tantalising.

If you're looking for trouble you found it.
Professor Stephen Hawking
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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2007 :  22:27:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Myf

Option 1. Be harsh! The wait will be tantalising.

Seconded. I look forward to having a week or two of agonising curiosity!

Deliberatley causing mayhem in Snape's Potions class.
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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2007 :  23:22:51  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Option 1, please. Waiting is hard enough, that's true. But for me, I'm getting busier and busier with day camp the closer it gets to July. And if you wait, then I won't have time to really read carefully and think about it--and as S.H. said, to mourn. But I keep thinking that there are some deaths that have to come. I'm prepared for Dumbledore--we've done that with canon, and I was prepared for it then. Not easy, and I know that with your sensitive writing, it won't be any easier either.

But then there's Snape and not just Snape, but the way it will affect Harry. And Draco, when his father goes, as well. In fact, all the Slytherin students have ties or knowledge of those who are going to be part of this, if it plays out the way Harry has been told.


Eeyore

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2007 :  00:10:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You guys are such troopers! Now I think I may cry. But I will stay the course and we will make it through this together. And remember the old saying: "It's always darkest before the dawn."


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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2007 :  12:47:14  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eeyore

But then there's Snape and not just Snape, but the way it will affect Harry. And Draco, when his father goes, as well. In fact, all the Slytherin students have ties or knowledge of those who are going to be part of this, if it plays out the way Harry has been told.


I agree with Option 1 even though it will kill me. And I hate to say that I've been so focused on Harry finding out that Snape's soul is chained to Voldemort that I have completely forgotten about Draco and the other students--which is a little strange because I have become a major Redeemed!Draco fan after HBP and Theo's Draco is not going to take things well. Will it be a comfort to him that his dad was trying to help Snape to save Narcissa and Draco? I don't know.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2007 :  16:57:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sunsethill

I agree with Option 1 even though it will kill me. And I hate to say that I've been so focused on Harry finding out that Snape's soul is chained to Voldemort that I have completely forgotten about Draco and the other students--which is a little strange because I have become a major Redeemed!Draco fan after HBP and Theo's Draco is not going to take things well. Will it be a comfort to him that his dad was trying to help Snape to save Narcissa and Draco? I don't know.

I'm a redeemed!Draco believer too and I think you will be pleased with the way he turns out.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 06/14/2007 16:58:42
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2007 :  02:32:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have just sent chapter 30 off to Myf to be beta'd. This chapter has taken a lot of time to write because it is, of course, the climax of the story and it's LONG - 32 pages in its current form. I don't know if it will be out by Thursday, but if not, it should be ready by early next week. In the meantime, I will be working on chapter 31.

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Myf
Confunded

571 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2007 :  07:59:55  Show Profile  Visit Myf's Homepage  Click to see Myf's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I'll try to have a look at it tomorrow morning, but from experience these sort of chapters need more than one look. But I'll do my best and get it back to Theo ASAP.

AND OMG EXCITING, huh?

If you're looking for trouble you found it.
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2007 :  11:12:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Myf

I'll try to have a look at it tomorrow morning, but from experience these sort of chapters need more than one look. But I'll do my best and get it back to Theo ASAP.

I guarantee this will take more than one look and it's far better to take a few extra days to get it right than rush just to get it out.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2007 :  12:58:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
*waiting**waiting**waiting*

Deliberatley causing mayhem in Snape's Potions class.
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gimu
Addled

Ireland
209 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2007 :  14:45:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
*Closes eyes while posting*
That's because I have just read HPEW again from the start (over the last 3 weeks or so) and am well into HPCS - I am reading a bit most nights so I should be caught up in no time. I haven't read the last few chapters you've sent Theo.
I just wanted to say that I am so impressed by how you have been able to show us Snape as you see him - really developed his character so well, and it all fits - other fanfiction brings the characters away from what they are in canon. Snape is such a chimera (I think that word fits, but correct me if I'm wrong) - I am hoping we will see what JKR sees in her book 7 - I do hope we were right and that Snape is good, but if we were wrong, then you have done us the service of writing the other story as close to what it would have been as possible - I hope I am making sense.
I have been reading all the canon books in order too and am half way through HBP. Sometimes I prefer HPEW and HPCS because the characters are developed more thoroughly than jKR likes to - probably for plot reasons on her part.
I'm sure there was something else I wanted to write, but its left my head now.
Thanks again for the story Theo!
Excited and looking forward to the end
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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2007 :  17:37:29  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I've been doing the same thing, which is why I haven't posted much lately--just lurking long enough to catch anything new. But I'm like gimu, in going back through the story of HPEW and then into HPCS, I really appreciate what you've done with the story and the characters, Theo. My fear is that if JKR makes Snape to be really evil after all, that I won't be at all happy with the last book and it will ruin the series for me. It really will feel like a betrayal of the characters that she has set up.

So if that happens I may be reading yours more than I reread the HP canon--lol.

One of the things that I like that you have done (so far, anyway) is that Harry is having to tackle the issues that I think JKR brought into the books from the beginning, but she hasn't really resovled any of them--the betrayal, the forgiveness that needs to happen for Harry to remain so pure of heart. When she left him at the end of HBP I felt very dissatisfied because Harry was still so bitter and angry and full of revenge (understandably given what he saw on the Tower), but none of that will serve him in defeating Voldemort; rather I think it will hinder or altogether prevent him achieving his goal.

But I digress, as usual. That comes from reading HPEW, HPCS, OotP, and HBP, all at the same time, and trying to do normal things like paying the bills and actually talking to my husband once in a while. LOL

So right now, I'm soooooooo ready for the next chapter of HPCS--*looks hopefully at my email every day, several times a day*

Eeyore

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2007 :  22:51:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gimu

I do hope we were right and that Snape is good, but if we were wrong, then you have done us the service of writing the other story as close to what it would have been as possible - I hope I am making sense.

Perfect sense and though I fully expect Snape to show himself as a good guy by the end of DH, in other ways I am definitely heading down what I expect to be the road not taken. For one thing, JKR is never going to give us the depth of character development that I go into, because it just isn't what she does.

As Eeyore points out, after six books Harry is still clueless when it comes to love, hate and defeating Voldemort. He just doesn't get the connection. He will, of course, but it's probably all going to come in some eleventh hour surprise revelation amidst desperate danger. Dramatic and exciting, but blink and you've missed it. This approach has it's merits, but it also has its shortcomings. Ultimately, that's why I've written these stories: to provide a different view of canon. Even though the storyline is AU, I hope that in the end, the my characters will end up being identical to JKR's - the same people having simply taken different paths.

As to chapter 30, you picked the right moment to ask, Eeyore. You should be getting it this evening.

...

And Chapter 30 is now UP!.


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Edited by - Theowyn on 06/25/2007 23:59:45
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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  07:10:57  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I found it very late. I had a very emotional day anyway. I attended the memorial service for a friend's husband who had colon cancer, diagnosed last year. It was harder to be there than I had imagined--all a bit too close to home. So I fell asleep on the couch because my muscles were all tied up in knots. And then I checked my email when I woke up about 1:30.

Reading this chapter after that day in the middle of the night was probably not my best choice. It is incredible what you did with the story in this one, Theo. Absolutely incredible. You've managed to tie up a lot of loose ends, while still leaving some things for the last chapter. Lupin, for instance, and Draco, not to mention what happened to the rest of them.

And I'll come back later when I'm not still in tears over this one. Excellent chapter, Theo.

Eeyore

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Krabat
Giddy

Germany
40 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  08:03:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
!!! Spoilers for the new chapter!!!


Oh, wow. What a chapter. Thank you, Theo! It was really action packed, and the plan to engage Voldemort in battle did not leave anything to be desired. I really liked the scene in GP when Harry says good bye to Snape. Again you stay absolutely true to your characters, Theo. I was expecting this big confession talk (I was sure, Snape was the one telling Voldemort the prophecy, nice parllel to HBP), but somehow it wouldn't have fit. Even in HPEW Snape only told Harry about his role in his parents death after Harry knew about the fact. The way they said good bye was really bittersweet. Well done.

Another point I really appreciated was your task for the DA. I don't think the adults would allow them to battle DEs, but the students surely would not tolerate being left out. So occupying Day is a perfect solution.

Then the location of Harry's battle, the locked room in the Department of Mysteries...yes, I didn't even think of it, and it's of course the only possible place.

Another very interesting scene was Snape meeting Lucius. So, Snape did realize that death would be more kind than what would happen if Voldemort uses up your soul. That opens another question. Would Snape have tried to kill himself before Voldemort called him? Difficult, since he had no way of knowing when that would happen.

The battle in Voldemorts soul (very nice choice of soulscape, and the different interpretations of it by Harry and Voldemort) then brought the answer to how Voldemort was going to use his DEs. I did wonder a bit how calmly Harry killed most of them, since it is a very real killing, other than dispatching conjured creatures. And Harry knows that. He never showed any reservation besides his worries for Snape and that doesn't quite fit, in my opinion. On the other hand I realize that everything is happening really fast, not much time has passed since Harry learned about Voldemorts way to immortality. So perhaps it hasn't really registered. Snape on the other hand is very clear about trying to kill as many DEs as possible. It matches what he told Harry when they talked about murder after revaeling the truth about the vigilante (will we hear about Knight again, I wonder).

The end, of course is heart rending. There is so much in the last couple of sentences. Snape realizing that Harry truly cares about him regardless of his past deeds, and also Snape admitting that he cares deeply about Harry. A last gift for Harry (not to speak of saving his life again). So, the question remains if the drop from the plateau really means Snape is gone for good. But Theo always emphasized the inportance of the many bonds between Harry and Snape, and Harry already managed once to call Snape back from near death in HPEW. I still hope he will manage again.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  12:25:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
...Reading this chapter after that day in the middle of the night was probably not my best choice... I'll come back later when I'm not still in tears over this one.

Oh Eeyore, you poor thing. No, this was definitely not light reading for the middle of the night. Ugh! I promise Ch31 will be cheerier.

quote:
Originally posted by Krabat

!!! Spoilers for the new chapter!!!
Oh, wow. What a chapter. Thank you, Theo! It was really action packed, and the plan to engage Voldemort in battle did not leave anything to be desired.

I am so glad that the battle worked. Writing fight scenes has never been something I considered my forte, so I did worry that it might fall flat and be boring. I'm too close to the writing to be able to tell.

quote:
I really liked the scene in GP when Harry says good bye to Snape. Again you stay absolutely true to your characters, Theo. I was expecting this big confession talk (I was sure, Snape was the one telling Voldemort the prophecy, nice parllel to HBP), but somehow it wouldn't have fit. Even in HPEW Snape only told Harry about his role in his parents death after Harry knew about the fact.
Yes, there was no way that Snape was going to have "the talk" with Harry. As he muses later in the chapter, he simply couldn't bring himself to do it.

quote:
Another point I really appreciated was your task for the DA. I don't think the adults would allow them to battle DEs, but the students surely would not tolerate being left out. So occupying Day is a perfect solution.
One thing I would love to write someday is the "missing moment" of this battle. It would be hiliarious. You've got Fred and George who are the world's best pranksters plus Walter and Jeremy who are the twins' spiritual brothers. Then there's Ginny, Neville, Luna. It's a complete, madcap farce with just enough serousness to let our second-string heroes shine.

quote:
Another very interesting scene was Snape meeting Lucius. So, Snape did realize that death would be more kind than what would happen if Voldemort uses up your soul.
This may be my favorite scene in the chapter because so much happens here. It is really quite intense. Snape is spared having to commit a mercy killing but Draco suffers in his place. This is Draco's moment of revelation and redemption, but there is nothing easy about it. It costs his father's life and leaves him shattered. He will have quite a job coming to terms with what happened and finding a new direction in life.

quote:
That opens another question. Would Snape have tried to kill himself before Voldemort called him?
Yes, though he never thought of this as turning his wand on himself. It never occurred to Snape that he would be the last DE standing. His idea of suicide was throwing himself into the thick of battle and fighting until someone killed him. He thought that he'd reached that point in the DPS office and was quite annoyed with Remus for trying to save him.

quote:
The battle in Voldemorts soul (very nice choice of soulscape, and the different interpretations of it by Harry and Voldemort) then brought the answer to how Voldemort was going to use his DEs. I did wonder a bit how calmly Harry killed most of them, since it is a very real killing, other than dispatching conjured creatures. And Harry knows that. He never showed any reservation besides his worries for Snape and that doesn't quite fit, in my opinion.
This was the hardest choice that I had to make for this chapter and indeed for the story. I could have side-stepped this issue with a plot device that allowed the DEs to die without Harry directly killing them, but that would have felt like a cop-out to me. Too often in literature aimed at young people, the hero gets a pass on killing. The villain either falls on his own sword or someone else steps in and kills him. I don't think that's honest. Our hero has to be able to do the deed without shrinking from it.

In Harry's defense, he kills as passively as possible, using the DEs own spells and conjured creatures against his enemies when he can. And he takes no pleasure in killing. He even feels sorry for the DEs. But he is facing dozens of opponents and the greatest Dark wizard of the age. He can't hesitate or all will be lost. He doesn't have time to think about this, let alone the luxury of anguishing over what he has to do. Months of training take over and he simply fights.

From a canon perspective, Harry told DD in HBP that if he was going to die he was going to take as many DEs with him as possible and Voldemort too, if he could. And Dumbledore praised him for that. I don't personally think that JKR will put Harry in a position where he has to make good on that boast, but I do think this signals the fact that destroying evil for a righteous cause is not itself evil, only regrettable.

quote:
So, the question remains if the drop from the plateau really means Snape is gone for good.
Ah yes, the million dollar question. Stay tuned for the next exciting chapter...

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Edited by - Theowyn on 06/26/2007 12:55:46
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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  15:59:27  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Well, it really wasn't any easier the second time through--though I did see some different things, or maybe just thought about them more.

Yes, I like the point that Snape was doing something to help Lucius by not letting him be one of the summoned Death Eaters, and that Draco was redeemed and knew that Snape was not evil after all--and that he was apparently going to follow Snape's instructions.

But, when that ceiling fell--did you kill off Remus as well. Argh. I totally just didn't even think about it the first time I read that.

And the end--I agree, the landscape for Voldemort's soul is incredibly well conceived. It has the feel of Mount Doom and Frodo, Sam and Gollum, without being a copy of it. And of course, you end it in a totally different way.

The forgiveness from Harry is there for Snape to hear and see and accept. And the regret and remorse from Snape is there for Harry as well. All without either of them going all gushy and blubbery (unlike me ). But like krabat, I have to wonder if Snape isn't redeemed and saved in his act of being willing to die. It's his willing sacrifice to save Harry that redeems his soul. No? And he ensured that Harry didn't die by throwing him away from him and the danger of the death. Harry saw them both fall, but might there not be something that saves Snape? Dumbledore's phoenix, perhaps? Or Harry's Patronus? Hmmm. Yes, Snape is still bound to Voldemort because of the Dark Mark, however, wasn't that bond broken because of the forgiveness from Harry, as well as by Snape's sacrifice, done out of love? So, that's the optimist coming out in me again.

Well, I'm still thinking about this one, and wondering what can be cheery in the last chapter, if Remus and Severus have both been killed.


Eeyore

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Edited by - Eeyore on 06/26/2007 16:05:14
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  17:07:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eeyore

But like krabat, I have to wonder if Snape isn't redeemed and saved in his act of being willing to die. It's his willing sacrifice to save Harry that redeems his soul. No? And he ensured that Harry didn't die by throwing him away from him and the danger of the death... Yes, Snape is still bound to Voldemort because of the Dark Mark, however, wasn't that bond broken because of the forgiveness from Harry, as well as by Snape's sacrifice, done out of love?

There is so much I wish that I could say here and of course I can't. It is incredibly hard to watch all of you grappling with the events since chapter 28 without saying anything or explaining why I'm doing what I'm doing. It's not just to boost sales of Kleenex, I swear! Nor am I going for the easy, cliche tear-jerker: Snape-dies-to-redeem-himself-and-save-Harry. I wouldn't put you through this much grief for something that simplistic. It's more complicated than that which is why I can honestly answer your above questions, Eeyore, by saying yes and no to all of them. Believe it or not, after chapter 31 that should actually make sense.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 06/26/2007 17:10:08
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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  19:26:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great chapter! I am even more pleased that I did not cry! I suppose being somewhat prepared helped.

HA! Your meant it literally when you said the end of the chapter was something of a cliffhanger!

It seems to me that the goodness in Snape's soul would have an effect on the bond made. Unbreakable though it may be, certainly the acts of the true soul could weaken Voldemort's grip ()-- look how much damage Harry's feelings caused. It isn't as though Snape simply became unwilling, it is more that his soul worked against the vow. Love, compassion, understanding-- whatever you want to call it, kicked in at the end and could have made Voldemort's hold on Snape's soul unbearable to him. After all Snape did not give his soul to save Voldemort as agreed; he gave it to save Harry. At least Snape was in no doubt as to Harry's forgiveness in the final moments.

See, this is what I know not to expect from JKR. The whole emotional angle and delving into the individual psyche won't happen in canon-- even if the story does by some mysterious twist of fate end up at the same place. We may end up with Snape as an enigma forever (which would be much better IMO than evil through and through) and it won't necessarily feel wrong as the journey will take different roads. I'm glad your story has expressed our idea of the man without going all mushy. Lots of readers have no idea why there are people who think Snape may not be the bad guy he appears. They can't get past his foul temper, greasy hair, and overall assinine behaviour to his students. This story might go a way towards explaining that the characters have depth.

Voldemort's soulscape sounds like a work by Dali. In fact that's how I envisioned it (probably all the "surreal" references). Did you have any particular painting in mind possibly?

At least that little toerag, Kreacher, was useful for something.

I've got it! Snape fell, but as he fell Voldemort lost his hold on him. Snape fell free down several chutes and ended up hanging upsidedown from a chandelier in the Minister's Office!
No?
How about: Snape manages to catch hold of a rock on his descent then bites off Voldemort's hand and watches as Voldemort is consumed in the chasm.
No??
OK then. Well, I suppose Snape and Voldemort could fall and fall and fall to the deepest depth where they battle. Snape regains consciousness at the Ministry but finds that now all his hair and black robes are white! (oh the wonders of bleach and shampoo)

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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2007 :  21:29:57  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I knew that the chapter would be a tearjerker and end with a cliffhanger (yes, that was hilarious that it literally involved a cliff--and Voldemort's soulscape was perfectly done) and I know you still have something up your sleeve, but I really can't imagine how you're going to get us out of this. I just know you are.

As others have already said, you did a marvelous job of pulling together all the elements that were still hanging around and using them in a creative and canon-respecting way. But also as everyone has pointed out, the believability of Snape and Harry's interactions and it being Harry's love for Snape that finally begins to destroy Voldemort--that was just wonderful.

Any idea how long we need to wait for the next chapter?

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2007 :  00:26:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

See, this is what I know not to expect from JKR. The whole emotional angle and delving into the individual psyche won't happen in canon-- even if the story does by some mysterious twist of fate end up at the same place.
Hey, you never know. Jo could surprise us! There has to be SOME revelation and understanding in DH otherwise Harry is never going to defeat LV. I think we may get this through Dumbledore's memories or some such - those gave us a pretty decent understanding of Tom Riddle, after all. But you're right. Jo doesn't get into the characters heads the way I do. Instead of leading the readers to understand the characters slowly, she's apt to pull the surprise punch. Snape-dies-to-redeem-himself-and-save-Harry would fit perfectly into this formula and it's the ending I'm expecting from Jo.

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Voldemort's soulscape sounds like a work by Dali. In fact that's how I envisioned it (probably all the "surreal" references). Did you have any particular painting in mind possibly?
Ooh, great question! It is rather like a surreal painting. I didn't have a particular one in mind though I think, Munch's The Scream blended with van Gogh's Stary Night might come close.

I'll tell you what my main inspiration was - and this may sound weird - but it's the passage from the Bible that tells about Satan tempting Jesus. It says that Satan took Jesus to the top of a high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and said that he would give them all to Jesus if Jesus would worship him. Jesus refused, of course, but I can see Tom Riddle accepting such an offer. Voldemort captures the essense of Satan here, gazing down upon the whole world with nothing but lust for power.

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At least that little toerag, Kreacher, was useful for something.
And he would just hate that.

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I've got it! Snape fell, but as he fell Voldemort lost his hold on him. Snape fell free down several chutes and ended up hanging upsidedown from a chandelier in the Minister's Office!
No?
How about: Snape manages to catch hold of a rock on his descent then bites off Voldemort's hand and watches as Voldemort is consumed in the chasm.
No??
OK then. Well, I suppose Snape and Voldemort could fall and fall and fall to the deepest depth where they battle. Snape regains consciousness at the Ministry but finds that now all his hair and black robes are white! (oh the wonders of bleach and shampoo)
Brilliant! Oh the spoofs we could write!!

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I know you still have something up your sleeve, but I really can't imagine how you're going to get us out of this. I just know you are.


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But also as everyone has pointed out, the believability of Snape and Harry's interactions and it being Harry's love for Snape that finally begins to destroy Voldemort--that was just wonderful.
I've long believed that HP is essentially a story of these three people, so this seemed very appropriate.

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Any idea how long we need to wait for the next chapter?
Darn, I knew someone was going to ask that. It will definitely be out before OotP is released, but I can't say exactly how long before. Chapter 30 is huge and intense and it took a lot out of me emotionally. I've been working on 31 and have quite a lot written, but I still feel drained and I need my emotional energy to rebuild a bit before I can really make the drive to finish it. I've been pushing so hard to meet my deadlines for months, so for this last chapter, I'd like to relax a bit, be emotionally rested and be able to savor the writing of it.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 06/27/2007 00:27:50
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Siobhan
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Posted - 06/27/2007 :  13:55:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
There has to be SOME revelation and understanding in DH otherwise Harry is never going to defeat LV. I think we may get this through Dumbledore's memories or some such - those gave us a pretty decent understanding of Tom Riddle, after all. But you're right. Jo doesn't get into the characters heads the way I do. Instead of leading the readers to understand the characters slowly, she's apt to pull the surprise punch. Snape-dies-to-redeem-himself-and-save-Harry would fit perfectly into this formula and it's the ending I'm expecting from Jo.
There's just so much story to go into the last book, I don't see how she could do an in depth analysation and accomplish the action. As it is, it seems to me that the horcrux thing is going to have to be truncated (and a lot easier than we envision) for the book to be so short. Hmmm, I wonder if Harry will set others to find some of the horcruxes for him, thus cutting down the time and space needed to get on with offing Voldemort...
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I'll tell you what my main inspiration was - and this may sound weird - but it's the passage from the Bible that tells about Satan tempting Jesus. It says that Satan took Jesus to the top of a high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and said that he would give them all to Jesus if Jesus would worship him. Jesus refused, of course, but I can see Tom Riddle accepting such an offer. Voldemort captures the essense of Satan here, gazing down upon the whole world with nothing but lust for power.
Yeah, but Voldemort wouldn't be content with playing second fiddle (groooooaaaaaan) to Satan.

Think of the spoof endings as a sort of warm-up for wild speculation. Got to get a start on some wild rumours. Plus it is fun to think of ways that Snape could survive against all the odds.

On a more serious note, I think I figured out why I did not cry over this last chapter. I was proud of Snape. Of all his "heroic" or "self-sacrificing" acts this last one was the one I was most proud of, probably because he admited (and accepted) the reason for it-- and not just to himself, but to Harry as well. There was no ill will or grudging in the end. It was really the first truly heroic thing Snape did. He had to get beyond a lot of his life history (his emotional baggage is the only thing he's shown any sort of cowardice about), understand himself better and still face what had to be done.

I also liked the bit when Snape was on the edge of consciousness and recognised fear and concern for him on Remus's face. It is almost like he realises for the first time that Remus truly cares. Before Snape was always pushing Remus's overatures at friendship away, leaving them scorned as false and unnecesary. It seems he realises, for an instant at any rate, that the man was being honest.
Hmmm. That makes me wonder about what the return of that bonded soul felt like. To have that kind of thing within him along with Harry's presence must have been really annoying. I mean really, what could be worse than fending off a boy who is killing you with kindness, calling in your remaining bit of defense and finding that your pristine, spiteful, murderous, megolomaniac soul you thought was safely tied to another dark soul shows up tied with a ribbon of sacrifice and labeled to someone else! What a headache!

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Theowyn
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Posted - 06/27/2007 :  15:53:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

There's just so much story to go into the last book, I don't see how she could do an in depth analysation and accomplish the action. As it is, it seems to me that the horcrux thing is going to have to be truncated (and a lot easier than we envision) for the book to be so short. Hmmm, I wonder if Harry will set others to find some of the horcruxes for him, thus cutting down the time and space needed to get on with offing Voldemort...
I don't think he could delegate the actual horcrux hunt to anyone else. Heaven forbid that someone besides himself might get hurt. I do think most of the clues will come from others though: Kreacher, Snape, Hermione's exhaustive research and just about anyone else might provide these. So I expect a fairly straight shot of Harry running around finding and destroying horcruxes.

quote:
On a more serious note, I think I figured out why I did not cry over this last chapter. I was proud of Snape. Of all his "heroic" or "self-sacrificing" acts this last one was the one I was most proud of, probably because he admited (and accepted) the reason for it-- and not just to himself, but to Harry as well. There was no ill will or grudging in the end. It was really the first truly heroic thing Snape did. He had to get beyond a lot of his life history (his emotional baggage is the only thing he's shown any sort of cowardice about), understand himself better and still face what had to be done.
Snape did a lot of learning about himself in this chapter. He hated it and fought it, but facing death will do that to you.

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I also liked the bit when Snape was on the edge of consciousness and recognised fear and concern for him on Remus's face. It is almost like he realises for the first time that Remus truly cares.
Good catch! I'd say this is quite important to Snape.

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That makes me wonder about what the return of that bonded soul felt like. To have that kind of thing within him along with Harry's presence must have been really annoying. I mean really, what could be worse than fending off a boy who is killing you with kindness, calling in your remaining bit of defense and finding that your pristine, spiteful, murderous, megolomaniac soul you thought was safely tied to another dark soul shows up tied with a ribbon of sacrifice and labeled to someone else! What a headache!

Yeah, Voldy defintely wasn't having a great day and he was awfully surprised and miffed that Harry was able to affect him even though Snape was still alive.

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sunsethill
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Posted - 06/28/2007 :  12:58:06  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn
quote:
But also as everyone has pointed out, the believability of Snape and Harry's interactions and it being Harry's love for Snape that finally begins to destroy Voldemort--that was just wonderful.
I've long believed that HP is essentially a story of these three people, so this seemed very appropriate.



Yes, the juxtapositioning of all the common elements between the three has to be more than coincidence. I really look forward to learning exactly what she is trying to say with that.

quote:
Chapter 30 is huge and intense and it took a lot out of me emotionally. I've been working on 31 and have quite a lot written, but I still feel drained and I need my emotional energy to rebuild a bit before I can really make the drive to finish it. I've been pushing so hard to meet my deadlines for months, so for this last chapter, I'd like to relax a bit, be emotionally rested and be able to savor the writing of it.

I can certainly understand that. I want the last chapter to be all that you have envisioned when you started this story.

quote:
I'll tell you what my main inspiration was - and this may sound weird - but it's the passage from the Bible that tells about Satan tempting Jesus. It says that Satan took Jesus to the top of a high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and said that he would give them all to Jesus if Jesus would worship him. Jesus refused, of course, but I can see Tom Riddle accepting such an offer. Voldemort captures the essense of Satan here, gazing down upon the whole world with nothing but lust for power.


I think I had an unconscious reaction to your ideas based on my knowledge of this Biblical passage. Voldemort has always been a construct of pure evil, and in some ways, your Voldemort living on other people's souls is even worse than Rowling's who has "merely" split his own soul and taken other people's lives.
quote:
I also liked the bit when Snape was on the edge of consciousness and recognised fear and concern for him on Remus's face. It is almost like he realises for the first time that Remus truly cares. Before Snape was always pushing Remus's overatures at friendship away, leaving them scorned as false and unnecesary. It seems he realises, for an instant at any rate, that the man was being honest.


I was reading so fast that I rushed past this scene, but it must have been a revelation to Severus that he actually had gained someone's friendship besides Harry. It would have chipped away a little more at his defenses. And this was nicely foreshadowed all through the story by Remus refusing to betray Severus.

Just as Rowling has so many threads to tie together, you actually still have several hanging yourself, Theo--so take a good rest, be proud of how it all came together in this chapter, and then wow us with the last chapter. It has been really nice to have something this outstanding to read and comment on while we wait for Book 7.

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Myf
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Posted - 06/28/2007 :  18:34:10  Show Profile  Visit Myf's Homepage  Click to see Myf's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Just a beta-ing FYI for Theo - I'm away all next week, so the earliest I can look at a draft of the next chapter is next weekend. So take your time!

If you're looking for trouble you found it.
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Theowyn
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Posted - 06/28/2007 :  23:34:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
quote:
I'll tell you what my main inspiration was - and this may sound weird - but it's the passage from the Bible that tells about Satan tempting Jesus. It says that Satan took Jesus to the top of a high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and said that he would give them all to Jesus if Jesus would worship him. Jesus refused, of course, but I can see Tom Riddle accepting such an offer. Voldemort captures the essense of Satan here, gazing down upon the whole world with nothing but lust for power.

I think I had an unconscious reaction to your ideas based on my knowledge of this Biblical passage. Voldemort has always been a construct of pure evil, and in some ways, your Voldemort living on other people's souls is even worse than Rowling's who has "merely" split his own soul and taken other people's lives.

Thank you! I consider that a huge compliment. Evil is quite exciting to write and I'm glad I was able to push Voldemort to the limit.

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quote:
I also liked the bit when Snape was on the edge of consciousness and recognised fear and concern for him on Remus's face. It is almost like he realises for the first time that Remus truly cares. Before Snape was always pushing Remus's overatures at friendship away, leaving them scorned as false and unnecesary. It seems he realises, for an instant at any rate, that the man was being honest.
I was reading so fast that I rushed past this scene, but it must have been a revelation to Severus that he actually had gained someone's friendship besides Harry. It would have chipped away a little more at his defenses. And this was nicely foreshadowed all through the story by Remus refusing to betray Severus.

You don't see a lot of Remus in this story, but he is a crucial player. I can't say why, but it should become apparent in CH31.

quote:
Originally posted by Myf

Just a beta-ing FYI for Theo - I'm away all next week, so the earliest I can look at a draft of the next chapter is next weekend. So take your time!
Thanks for the heads-up and I hope you're going someplace fabulous!

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Edited by - Theowyn on 06/28/2007 23:58:42
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Siobhan
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Posted - 06/29/2007 :  12:26:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn

You don't see a lot of Remus in this story, but he is a crucial player. I can't say why, but it should become apparent in CH31.
Oh please don't tell me that Remus sacrifices his life to save Snape! I do love Snape the character, but to have Remus pull a Lily would be too hard to take (but not out of character for him). I know he realises how important Snape is to Harry's wellbeing and he feels badly for all the things that he might have prevented happening to Snape, but-- Noooooooo! .

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Theowyn
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Posted - 06/29/2007 :  17:32:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chapter 31

Everyone dies.

The End.

I'm joking!!!! I said it was going to be more cheerful than ch30, remember? Well, okay, to be honest, I think that some of you may cry, but it isn't as if there will be bodies everyone... well except for the DEs of course... okay, I'll shut up now.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 06/29/2007 17:37:04
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