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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2007 :  12:56:42  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Theo, I was on another author's list recently and everyone was sharing recommendations. (I included the link for HPCS, of course.) But I was wondering if now that things are a little less crazy at LL, you might consider putting your stories up at another location. The main reason I suggest this is because, while I used to be a regular at SQ, now that you have turned me into a fanatical Harry and Snape story reader, I spend more time elsewhere. And I notice that CS is not getting the reviews at SQ that HPEW did.

I have no idea how hard it is to upload stories to Potions and Snitches, but I would think it would be a good location for your stories to reach people who really enjoy Harry and Snape gen fiction.
http://www.potionsandsnitches.net/fanfiction/index.php
They also have a mechanism to send people to your web page and you could send them here to keep your responding to reviews down to a minimum. The site also seems to be attracting more of the better writers recently.

Of course, I know you have tons of other things to do, but you put so much work into your stories, I would like a wider range of readers to be able to enjoy them also.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2007 :  18:58:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, SH. I haven't had the chance to read fanfic in ages and I've never heard of Potions and Snitches, but it sounds like a wonderful site. I will try to upload HPEW and HPCS there.

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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2007 :  17:19:58  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn

Thanks, SH. I haven't had the chance to read fanfic in ages and I've never heard of Potions and Snitches, but it sounds like a wonderful site. I will try to upload HPEW and HPCS there.


You will make many people happy!

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2007 :  14:18:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sunsethill

quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn

Thanks, SH. I haven't had the chance to read fanfic in ages and I've never heard of Potions and Snitches, but it sounds like a wonderful site. I will try to upload HPEW and HPCS there.


You will make many people happy!

I have unfortunately run into some technical difficulties here. The site doesn't accept Word documents or even filtered .htm files apparently. I have emailed the staff asking them how to convert my docs into something acceptable without losing italics and paragraph breaks, so hopefully they'll have a solution.

In the meantime, I have managed to upload the first two chapters of HPEW to fanfiction.net.

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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2007 :  18:59:14  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I bet every site's differing requirements can be tough. It will be interesting to see how many people find the FFNet story. I am constantly amazed at how people actually find new authors over there.

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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2007 :  19:14:30  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well, you must have figured out the problems pretty easily because I left here and went over to Potions and Snitches and noticed that the first two chapters of EW are now up.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2007 :  21:56:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sunsethill

Well, you must have figured out the problems pretty easily because I left here and went over to Potions and Snitches and noticed that the first two chapters of EW are now up.


Yes, the good folks at P&S got back to me very quickly. The trick is that I need to copy the text of each chapter off the SugarQuill (because that's in the right format) and paste it directly into P&S.

And believe it or not, I already have two reviews from readers over at FF, so at least a few people know how to navigate that site.

Btw, I'm getting anxious to see what you guys think of chapter 21 so I've sent it out early. Enjoy!

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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  03:41:15  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Well, first of all, I was so surprised when I was checking my email and there was Chapter 21! That was great to get the chapter early.

I have so much to say, but I really have no idea where to start, but I really don't want to spoil the chapter for anyone who hasn't read it yet. So, let's see how I can do this--

I couldn't decide whether to be shocked like Harry was or whether to laugh, given Harry and Snape's reactions--so I did both. The suspense was well done, and I liked the way it was all explained by Dumbledore and Snape together.

But my favorite part, aside from the main point of the chapter, was when Dumbledore left them. They are both so afraid of actually spending time with one another--they might have to talk about something other than school or Voldemort. I loved that. (Given the recent pics in the news of Dan Radcliffe, I had no trouble imagining the scene in way more detail than I wanted. )

Did you invent the Healer's Gamble or is that based on something else? Brilliant. I also looked up the latin phrase that Dumbledore used--I was like Harry with no clue what it actually meant, but pretty sure of it's meaning just from the context. Also brilliant way to convey what Harry was thinking without going into all the details.

Oh, and I loved the way you brought in so many things from HBP without changing your story. And as always, you are keeping Harry, Severus and Dumbledore in character with canon--not easy, I'm sure.

I do have some questions, though--how did Dumbledore know to show up--did Hermione know where they went or did Dumbledore just figure it out, as he often seems to do where Harry is concerned, and what was Draco doing and why didn't it bother him?

I have more questions and comments, but I'll wait till others have also read the chapter. If it weren't already after midnight, I would read it again, but I'm going to get some sleep and read it in the morning.

TTFN


Eeyore

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Edited by - Eeyore on 03/01/2007 03:51:54
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Krabat
Giddy

Germany
40 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  05:09:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I also wonder what Draco was up to. Did he know about the Tentacula being in the cave? Hmm, I have to reread if there was a way to deal with that plant. Otherwise he surely didn't know it was there. But what else could he seek in the cave? Anyway, he again has to acknowledge that Harry is not (yet) his enemy.

The most interesting information in the chapter for me was the fact that Harry did not recognize Snape's house from Snape's subconscious. In the beginning of the chapter I was wondering why Snape brewed his potions in a building that was definitely not his house on Spinner's End. So, Harry should have a look at the house the next time he is in Snape's mind. Perhaps he will be confronted with Snape's childhood experiences. I believe those are a key in understanding Snape's personality (or everyones really), especially since we know from OotP that his childhood was not very pleasant. Something he definitely has in common with Harry.

I also really liked the concept of the Healer's Gamble. I remember the discussion some weeks back, whether Harry has to nearly die for Snape to realize that their relationship is importatnt for both of them. Now it remains to be seen if Snape is willing to admit to himself and Harry that saving Harry by risking his own life was not only done in order to keep a weapon against Voldemort. I'm really looking forward to how this will play out, Theo. I must admit, although I like the action parts, too, I'm really in it for all the soul searching.
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  11:47:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is one of my favorite chapters and one of the earliest that I started writing. The latter part was particularly fun. There is so much HP/SS fanfic out there and even I have gotten raised eyebrows because of the "intimacy" I portray between Snape and Harry. I couldn't resist doing a spoof of that when it fit so perfectly into the story. I also want to say that this was drafted long before Equus was announced and those pictures started showing up, so Iím not simply obsessed with Danís abs... or anything else. The timing just happened to work out really well.

Beyond being fun though, this chapter sets up several important plot points. It introduces Harry to Snapeís home for one thing and yes, Krabat, heís going to start wondering about that. Iíll say more about this in the next couple of chapters, because thatís where this will become significant.

Then thereís the Healer's Gamble. Yes, Eeyore, this was my own idea and I don't think it gives too much away to say that the concept of blood sacrifice was the main impetus for it. This has been a recurring theme in HP and is important to HPCS as well.

Draco is another plot thread that gets advanced in this chapter. Yes, thereís something going on there. Canít tell you what, of course.

As to Dumbledore, he does have a way of showing up where he needs to be, but thereís not much mystery to his presence here. Given how rapidly the Stinging Tentaculaís spores grow, there was only one place Snape could take Harry where he had the privacy and potions supplies he needed to give Harry immediate treatment. Dumbledore knew that, so after heíd managed to sort out R/Hr/G/Dís stories (amidst lots of shouted recriminations and everyone talking at once), he went straight to Snapeís house.

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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  17:08:14  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn

This is one of my favorite chapters and one of the earliest that I started writing. The latter part was particularly fun. There is so much HP/SS fanfic out there and even I have gotten raised eyebrows because of the "intimacy" I portray between Snape and Harry. I couldn't resist doing a spoof of that when it fit so perfectly into the story. I also want to say that this was drafted long before Equus was announced and those pictures started showing up, so Iím not simply obsessed with Danís abs... or anything else. The timing just happened to work out really well.


Yes, those Equus pics sprang into my mind so quickly--disturbingly so. At first I did find myself wondering just where you were going with all of that scene, and I was glad that you stayed true to the characters.

quote:
Beyond being fun though, this chapter sets up several important plot points. It introduces Harry to Snapeís home for one thing and yes, Krabat, heís going to start wondering about that. Iíll say more about this in the next couple of chapters, because thatís where this will become significant.


You mean that Harry is actually going to ask the appropriate questions that we all think of that he usually never gets round to asking? Just kidding--but I do wish in canon that JKR would have Harry be a little more proactive in ferreting out answers to the questions that all of us think to ask--and why doesn't he, silly boy?

quote:
Then thereís the Healer's Gamble. Yes, Eeyore, this was my own idea and I don't think it gives too much away to say that the concept of blood sacrifice was the main impetus for it. This has been a recurring theme in HP and is important to HPCS as well.


Well, that makes it even better--that it was your own invention. It does fit in so nicely with the blood sacrifice, and also has hints of the Unbreakable Vow. Harry's life has very definitely been saved by Snape now, which means he owes Snape a life debt (along with all the other times Snape stepped in to save him). But with this time, it is very deliberately done by Snape, and with great personal sacrfice on Snape's part. That is how I see their relationship--Harry must learn to trust and depend on Severus, and Severus must realize that he cares enough for Harry, beyond just needing him to fight Voldemort, that he is willing to risk his life for him.

I found that a very powerful scene, eased a bit by the humor of the situation. Nicely done, Theo--extremely nice. Had Snape realized what he must do before Harry reached out to touch his hand, or was his (Snape's) reaction of pulling away and leaving the room because he already had decided that he would have to use the Healer's Gamble? I must re-read this chapter later.

I have a question for you, that might seem totally unrelated to HPCS. I bought one of those nicely bound books at Barnes and Noble last fall--you know the ones with classic books? This one, Wellsprings of Faith, has three books by different authors, The Imitation of Christ, by Thomas a Kempis, The Interior Castle, by St. Teresa of Avila, and The Dark Night of the Soul, by St. John of the Cross.

I didn't get very far into Thomas a Kempis, but I recently started reading Teresa of Avila. The whole thing is about a vision she had in relation to how we pray and get closer to God, who is at the center of our soul, by going into our own "interior castle", with each of the 7 mansions adding more insight and depth to her spiritual quest. It reminded me very much of what you are having Harry do in going into Dumbledore's, his own, and Snape's minds--not the prayer aspect, or even a religious bent, but in exploring the nature of each person's inner soul.

The imagery that she uses is that, through comtemplative prayer, the person is trying to reach the most inner mansion, from which all the light in the cystal castle eminates. She led a life of spiritual contemplation, so a crystal castle fits very well. But to bring it back to HPCS, we see a beautiful place that is Dumbledore, filled with peace, due to his own peace within, looking out at a sea, which is likely what he sees as life beyond his current existance. Harry, being young, is incomplete, as in the unfinished works of his own "castle". As he is younger, his mind is more concrete in its visions. Then there is Snape, whose mind is a dark and dreary place, filled with controlled, but rather boring routine work. There is no joy there--no companionship, nothing to show that he has ever gone beyond the basics of existing.

When Harry finally sees Snape's home, it is much the same as his mind, except for all the books that surround his existance. So now, it seems to me, that Harry must make that connection between what he is finding in Snape's mind and what is the reality of Snape's home.

With both Dumbledore and Harry there are things that express their hopes and desires and ideals; with Snape there is such a feeling that he has closed off, compartmentalized, every aspect of his life--the outer life that others see, as well as his own inner "castle"--which he seems to have turned into a sort of dungeon. Or actually, going back to Teresa's imagery--everything outside her crystal castle was darkness and filled with serpents and toads (evil, in her words), so perhaps Severus has never let himself go into his own "interior castle"--he has remained outside the walls where there is only darkness. The reason Harry can't make any particular sense of it is that Severus himself has never explored it either--likely out of the fear of what he would find there.

Sorry to go off on such a tangent, but I just had to put together some of the things I've been thinking of while reading St. Teresa. Anyway, if you haven't read The Interior Castle, I'd recommend it. It has a surprisingly modern feel to it, considering that she wrote it in 1583.

Eeyore

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Edited by - Eeyore on 03/01/2007 17:10:57
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  19:45:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eeyore

quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn

This is one of my favorite chapters and one of the earliest that I started writing. The latter part was particularly fun. There is so much HP/SS fanfic out there and even I have gotten raised eyebrows because of the "intimacy" I portray between Snape and Harry. I couldn't resist doing a spoof of that when it fit so perfectly into the story. I also want to say that this was drafted long before Equus was announced and those pictures started showing up, so Iím not simply obsessed with Danís abs... or anything else. The timing just happened to work out really well.


Yes, those Equus pics sprang into my mind so quickly--disturbingly so. At first I did find myself wondering just where you were going with all of that scene, and I was glad that you stayed true to the characters.

You can always trust me to stay true to the characters.

quote:
quote:
Beyond being fun though, this chapter sets up several important plot points. It introduces Harry to Snapeís home for one thing and yes, Krabat, heís going to start wondering about that. Iíll say more about this in the next couple of chapters, because thatís where this will become significant.


You mean that Harry is actually going to ask the appropriate questions that we all think of that he usually never gets round to asking? Just kidding--but I do wish in canon that JKR would have Harry be a little more proactive in ferreting out answers to the questions that all of us think to ask--and why doesn't he, silly boy?

He IS growing up.

quote:
quote:
Then thereís the Healer's Gamble. Yes, Eeyore, this was my own idea and I don't think it gives too much away to say that the concept of blood sacrifice was the main impetus for it. This has been a recurring theme in HP and is important to HPCS as well.


Well, that makes it even better--that it was your own invention. It does fit in so nicely with the blood sacrifice, and also has hints of the Unbreakable Vow...

Yes, this was very intentional, too.

quote:
I found that a very powerful scene, eased a bit by the humor of the situation. Nicely done, Theo--extremely nice. Had Snape realized what he must do before Harry reached out to touch his hand, or was his (Snape's) reaction of pulling away and leaving the room because he already had decided that he would have to use the Healer's Gamble? I must re-read this chapter later.

I'm so glad you asked this because it's one of those instances where Harry is misinterpreting Snape's actions. The Healer's Gamble is a very rarely used spell (more on that in the next chapter) and Snape had forgotten about it until Harry reached out and touched his hand. He dashed off, not because he was horrified by Harry's jesture, but because he needed to go prepare to cast the spell.

quote:
I have a question for you, that might seem totally unrelated to HPCS. I bought one of those nicely bound books at Barnes and Noble last fall--you know the ones with classic books? This one, Wellsprings of Faith, has three books by different authors, The Imitation of Christ, by Thomas a Kempis, The Interior Castle, by St. Teresa of Avila, and The Dark Night of the Soul, by St. John of the Cross.

I didn't get very far into Thomas a Kempis, but I recently started reading Teresa of Avila. The whole thing is about a vision she had in relation to how we pray and get closer to God, who is at the center of our soul, by going into our own "interior castle", with each of the 7 mansions adding more insight and depth to her spiritual quest. It reminded me very much of what you are having Harry do in going into Dumbledore's, his own, and Snape's minds--not the prayer aspect, or even a religious bent, but in exploring the nature of each person's inner soul.

The imagery that she uses is that, through comtemplative prayer, the person is trying to reach the most inner mansion, from which all the light in the cystal castle eminates. She led a life of spiritual contemplation, so a crystal castle fits very well. But to bring it back to HPCS, we see a beautiful place that is Dumbledore, filled with peace, due to his own peace within, looking out at a sea, which is likely what he sees as life beyond his current existance. Harry, being young, is incomplete, as in the unfinished works of his own "castle". As he is younger, his mind is more concrete in its visions. Then there is Snape, whose mind is a dark and dreary place, filled with controlled, but rather boring routine work. There is no joy there--no companionship, nothing to show that he has ever gone beyond the basics of existing.

When Harry finally sees Snape's home, it is much the same as his mind, except for all the books that surround his existance. So now, it seems to me, that Harry must make that connection between what he is finding in Snape's mind and what is the reality of Snape's home.

With both Dumbledore and Harry there are things that express their hopes and desires and ideals; with Snape there is such a feeling that he has closed off, compartmentalized, every aspect of his life--the outer life that others see, as well as his own inner "castle"--which he seems to have turned into a sort of dungeon. Or actually, going back to Teresa's imagery--everything outside her crystal castle was darkness and filled with serpents and toads (evil, in her words), so perhaps Severus has never let himself go into his own "interior castle"--he has remained outside the walls where there is only darkness. The reason Harry can't make any particular sense of it is that Severus himself has never explored it either--likely out of the fear of what he would find there.

Sorry to go off on such a tangent, but I just had to put together some of the things I've been thinking of while reading St. Teresa. Anyway, if you haven't read The Interior Castle, I'd recommend it. It has a surprisingly modern feel to it, considering that she wrote it in 1583.

This is a great analysis of these characters and their mental landscapes. Just imagine what Voldemort's innerself will be like!

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Edited by - Theowyn on 03/01/2007 19:48:28
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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2007 :  10:45:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
**Aside from wanting to discuss the chapter, I thought I should jump in here and say that, if you haven't yet gathered, there are spoilers throughout this conversation. It is unavoidable, I'm afraid, as we must talk specifics. With that in mind, if it bothers you to have details of Theo's fanfic discussed here before you read the latest installment, then perhaps, skip the topic and come back to it. I've had to exercise great self control when checking over the active topics list when I know there is a new chapter and I've not read it yet, but it has been well worth the effort.**


Theo, as I was reading I was wondering if you've ever read Diana Gabaldon's Outlander? In it (among other things) there is a marriage with an added blood vow-- something like "blood of my blood, bone of my bone." It is meant to be an old Scots tradition (I haven't researched to find out if this is accurate or not) dating back to pre-Christian times.

So now Harry has helped Malfoy out of a couple of scrapes. Could Harry's taking the Stining Tentacula (thus saving Malfoy's life) be the basis of a life debt? It certainly has to register with Malfoy that Harry isn't all that bad of a guy to know despite who and what he is.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2007 :  11:26:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

**Aside from wanting to discuss the chapter, I thought I should jump in here and say that, if you haven't yet gathered, there are spoilers throughout this conversation. It is unavoidable, I'm afraid, as we must talk specifics. With that in mind, if it bothers you to have details of Theo's fanfic discussed here before you read the latest installment, then perhaps, skip the topic and come back to it. I've had to exercise great self control when checking over the active topics list when I know there is a new chapter and I've not read it yet, but it has been well worth the effort.**


Theo, as I was reading I was wondering if you've ever read Diana Gabaldon's Outlander? In it (among other things) there is a marriage with an added blood vow-- something like "blood of my blood, bone of my bone." It is meant to be an old Scots tradition (I haven't researched to find out if this is accurate or not) dating back to pre-Christian times.

So now Harry has helped Malfoy out of a couple of scrapes. Could Harry's taking the Stining Tentacula (thus saving Malfoy's life) be the basis of a life debt? It certainly has to register with Malfoy that Harry isn't all that bad of a guy to know despite who and what he is.

I've never read Outlander, but that sounds like a very interesting tradition. Blood ties, blood sacrifice and so forth are ancient ideas that permeate human societies throughout the world. I think it's fascinating that JKR uses these in HP. It adds depth and shading to the whole pure-blood fanaticism when DD himself admits the crucial role blood can play in magic.

I forgot to comment earlier on the phrase in flagrante delicto. Eeyore, you're not the only one who had to look that up. I did too, but in a backwards sort of way. When I started writing this chapter, this was the phrase that popped into my head, but I had no idea where I had learned it and wasn't even sure that I hadn't simply imagined it, so I had to go digging too.

My dictionary, alas, is fairly worthless. It gave the literal meaning: "while the crime is blazing", but not the more specific (and more common) meaning which is "in the act of having sex." Fortunately, the online American Heritage dictionary gave the full definition so I knew I wasn't going crazy.

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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2007 :  12:12:56  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote


That about says it all! This chapter was definitely a home run, Theo. Harry's continuing frustration with Snape's mind just confirmed how sad I am for what Snape's life and choices have done to him. And I can't wait for Harry to break through this and bring some light and joy to him.

Then we have Harry being Harry. This was such a great nod to HBP, but I loved that Harry's curiosity again led to his "saving people thing." I can't imagine what Draco is thinking now, and I can't wait to see how this will affect the rest of the story.

I must say that your stinging tentacula is a really gruesome invention. The writhing reminds me of all those creepy sci-fi movies with the aliens growing in people's bodies. I have only been able to watch those kinds of movies even a little bit recently, so you have thoroughly grossed me out. And then to have Harry accept his death so stoically. I can't help but think that the whole way he faced death should be something that leads to Snape respecting Harry more.

And then the Healer's Gamble--what an amazing idea. Harry longing for some human contact from Snape as he is in such great pain, and that being what reminds Snape of his last chance to save Harry. And even though we find out later what Snape is risking, you can just tell that he never even hesitates! That will give both of them something to really think on over the next few days.

quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn

This is one of my favorite chapters and one of the earliest that I started writing. The latter part was particularly fun. There is so much HP/SS fanfic out there and even I have gotten raised eyebrows because of the "intimacy" I portray between Snape and Harry. I couldn't resist doing a spoof of that when it fit so perfectly into the story.


I was reading this story at the orthodontist's office and I'm sure everyone was wondering why that crazy woman was snorting in her hot chocolate during the next part. You must have had SUCH fun writing all the double entendres, and I was sure that you were also having a blast poking a little fun at all the SS/HP stories. Nice to have that feeling confirmed.

But poor Snape--he's just risked his life and Harry wakes up with no memory and thinks the worst about the situation! You just can't give him any relief from the angst, can you? I'm so glad that Dumbledore was there to explain everything quickly. And then leaving them alone together. I can't wait to see how they work out the ramifications of what just happened.

And I love, love, love the way you are using Spinner's End in this story. I'm afraid that we won't get much more back story on Snape's growing up years from Rowling, so it's nice to have the itch scratched by you.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2007 :  14:44:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
SH, Thanks for the wonderful comments! I'm so glad you enjoyed this.

quote:
I must say that your stinging tentacula is a really gruesome invention. The writhing reminds me of all those creepy sci-fi movies with the aliens growing in people's bodies. I have only been able to watch those kinds of movies even a little bit recently, so you have thoroughly grossed me out.
Oh no, I'm sorry! Actually, Myf made a very similar comment back when I introduced these things in Herbology. She said they were horrifying, especially because "Now I know Harry's going to get attacked by one!" Very clever girl, our Myf.

quote:
And then to have Harry accept his death so stoically. I can't help but think that the whole way he faced death should be something that leads to Snape respecting Harry more.

And then the Healer's Gamble--what an amazing idea. Harry longing for some human contact from Snape as he is in such great pain, and that being what reminds Snape of his last chance to save Harry. And even though we find out later what Snape is risking, you can just tell that he never even hesitates! That will give both of them something to really think on over the next few days.

There is a lot that happens in this chapter and the next that these two ought to think about. The problem is that there is a bit too much. Harry's stoicism in the face of death... Snape risking his life to save him... Harry's mortifying misjudgment of the situation... etc... Any one of these things alone might be fodder for soul searching. Piled on top of one another, they're hopelessly overwhelming - and we all know how well these two deal with soul-baring personal issues. So don't look for a lot of acknowledgement from these guys when avoidance is so much easier.

On the other hand, there's a lot to be said for what goes unsaid. Harry and Snape are on their way to the sort of rapport Snape and DD enjoy, where many things simply don't need to be said. Neither realizes this and they aren't there yet, but it's coming.

quote:
I was reading this story at the orthodontist's office and I'm sure everyone was wondering why that crazy woman was snorting in her hot chocolate during the next part. You must have had SUCH fun writing all the double entendres, and I was sure that you were also having a blast poking a little fun at all the SS/HP stories. Nice to have that feeling confirmed.

But poor Snape--he's just risked his life and Harry wakes up with no memory and thinks the worst about the situation! You just can't give him any relief from the angst, can you?

Not a moment's, no. And yes, I know I'm cruel.

quote:
I'm so glad that Dumbledore was there to explain everything quickly. And then leaving them alone together.

Dumbledore has become a charming surprise for me personally in this story and this chapter is a wonderful example of his character. Dumbledore is rather like a parent whose child has just told him that their life is over because they didn't get invited to a classmate's birthday party. He hates to see Snape and Harry so upset, but he just can't take this seriously - and he knows he can't let them use it to shove each other away. They have to get over it and be able to look each other in the eyes again.

Beyond this pragmatic point, however, Dumbledore is also very human. One of the advantages of old age is that people often embarrass far less easily than when they were young. I know there was nothing that could make my grandmother blush and I'm sure we've all known an octogenarian like this. Dumbledore's 150, so what mortifies Snape and Harry only amuses him. And he's mischievous enough to enjoy seeing these two squirm over something so harmless.

quote:
And I love, love, love the way you are using Spinner's End in this story. I'm afraid that we won't get much more back story on Snape's growing up years from Rowling, so it's nice to have the itch scratched by you.

JKR invents so many wonderful things that she will never have time to explore in any detail. Occlumency and Legilimency were such, which was why I chose to explore those fully in HPEW. Snapeís roots are another and Iím thoroughly enjoying being able to weave through the settings as HBP on my own terms.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 03/02/2007 14:49:43
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Eeyore
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Posted - 03/02/2007 :  20:56:06  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn


. . . however, Dumbledore is also very human. One of the advantages of old age is that people often embarrass far less easily than when they were young. I know there was nothing that could make my grandmother blush and I'm sure we've all known an octogenarian like this. Dumbledore's 150, so what mortifies Snape and Harry only amuses him. And he's mischievous enough to enjoy seeing these two squirm over something so harmless.


LOL--I'm ahead of Dumbledore. I reached that point when I turned 50. I think that's why I liked being 50 so much. I just quit letting things bother me, and life is so much more fun when you take yourself and everyone a little less seriously, and see the humor in situations.

Actually, I quit getting embarassed so easily when the girls were younger. They always had a way of saying things in public places that were astoundingly humililitating, until I realized that all children do that to their parents, and it really is funny, if you just let it be. So I did. (Harry's not old enough to have that experience, and Snape never went down that path, as far as we know, unless there is some hidden message in that answer that JKR gave about "Snape doesn't have a daughter"--the one that set off all the speculation that it meant he has a son somewhere. --not happy, I'm sure, whatever she meant by it..)

That is what I liked so much about Harry and Severus being left alone at the end--both feeling confused and awkward, and wanting to resent or blame the other for their self-imposed misery, and all the while, Dumbledore was getting a huge chuckle out of it--and they knew it, and could do nothing to change it.

At some point, they might have to actually talk to one another. Well, no, maybe they won't, as you suggested, they might just get to that state of being comfortable without talking. At least there is some hope of it.

Eeyore

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sunsethill
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Posted - 03/03/2007 :  12:38:00  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eeyore
At some point, they might have to actually talk to one another. Well, no, maybe they won't, as you suggested, they might just get to that state of being comfortable without talking. At least there is some hope of it.


I always enjoy the "talky" angsty scenes in stories, but in some ways I think what you may be planning, Theo, is more appropriate for these two--more in character. It will have to be done carefully to be satisfying to the reader, but I trust you with that.

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Theowyn
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quote:
Originally posted by sunsethill

quote:
Originally posted by Eeyore
At some point, they might have to actually talk to one another. Well, no, maybe they won't, as you suggested, they might just get to that state of being comfortable without talking. At least there is some hope of it.


I always enjoy the "talky" angsty scenes in stories, but in some ways I think what you may be planning, Theo, is more appropriate for these two--more in character. It will have to be done carefully to be satisfying to the reader, but I trust you with that.

Thank you! That's quite a compliment, because that's the real trick to writing Harry and Snape: knowing what they will and won't say to each other while making the unspoken thoughts clear enough that everyone can read between the lines.

I don't mean to imply that Harry and Snape will never talk to each other. Some things have to be said. Snape's confession to Harry at the end of HPEW is a good example - call these the uncomfortable truths. These have to be confronted at some point because a relationship built on lies and half-truths is no relationship at all and there are still a couple of skeletons hiding in Snape's closet, plus Harry is keeping secrets from Snape, too.

Emotions are another matter. Harry and Snape have no trouble expressing anger to each other, but anything else they don't know how to talk about. Even something as simple as saying "thank you" is agonizingly difficult - and this won't change much.

Snape doesn't talk about his feelings if he can help it. Harry knows this and if he's going to build a mature relationship with Snape, he - like DD - will need to learn the art of communicating with the man through what he doesn't say as much as in what he does.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 03/03/2007 17:22:47
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Siobhan
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That last bit has always been one of the intriguing aspects of Snape as a character. Snape reminds me of a JKR interview. We're always guessing at what she meant and pointing out exactly what she did or did not say.

I watched PoA on TV the other night. Still love that scene with Lupin talking about Lily.

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Eeyore
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Posted - 03/03/2007 :  18:28:44  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, I know--that's the one scene that I always thought JKR should have included in POA and didn't. Seeing it in the movie was like finding the missing puzzle piece.

Theo, I have to say again, I really like your understanding of Snape and Harry's relationship--it's just so close to the way I read the two of them, but I've not always been able to put it into words.

Eeyore

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Theowyn
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Posted - 03/14/2007 :  23:31:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chapter 22 is up!

If you haven't received it, let me know.

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Eeyore
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Posted - 03/15/2007 :  17:15:56  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
And a very cool chapter it is, too. I was so pleased to see it appear last night. I was very cozy with my pot of tea, snacks and warm blanket while I read the previous chapter first and then the new one.

I have to say, that as always, I love the scenes where Harry and Snape talk to one another, or avoid talking to one another. I do want to know what's on the other side of the wall, just as Harry does. But I also found myself wondering when he's going to slip and call Prof. Snape, the adult, "Severus" as he does in his youth's mind. And if he does will it completely shut the door or will it open it?

Day is an idiot, but no surprise there, since he's to do with the Ministry. But there is something about Knight that still bothers me--but I can't put my finger on what it is. Too cooperative, perhaps?

Eeyore

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Theowyn
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Glad you enjoyed the chapter, Eeyore.

And I'm glad that Knight still gives you pause. One of my great joys in writing both HPEW and HPCS is creating DADA teachers that keep people guessing.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 03/15/2007 19:13:11
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Krabat
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Posted - 03/16/2007 :  05:47:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't trust Knight either. In my opinion she's still a prime suspect for the death eater murders. And her reactions to Harry's questions about the events with the tentacula could be interpreted as guilty conscience. On the other hand she might only have been shocked since Harry had such a close call. All in all, I must admit, I just don't like her, but I didn't like Ryan either and he was a good guy in the end.

On a different note, I' m still waiting for the (re)appearance of two items. First, I'm still convinced that the Clarifying Solution could be of great help to Harry. "And it will give you insight into that which you most desperately need to understand." That's what Snape has to say about that potion. So I'm wondering, will it help Harry with the task to understand Snape's mind or to battle Voldemort in the subconscience. In any case I really hope, we will see it in action. The other thing that could be helpful in breaching the wall in Snape's mind is the stack of letters Harry got from his mother. Harry never got around to reading some more of them. They could be the key to understanding the relationship between Severus and Lily, since I doubt that Snape will talk about it to Harry.

So, I can't wait for the story to develop further. Thank you, Theo, for another enjoyable chapter.
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Yes, the letters! I don't know whether to hope that Harry will remember them. He has always been so slow in that regard.

I still don't trust Knight-- especially after the incident with the Stinging Tentacula. It is obvious that Draco has no idea who was behind it, but he was lured there by someone. And it is plausible that the person behind the attack was trying to cut down another DE/DE relation, and get at Lucius-- this doesn't sound like Snape (wonder when Harry will think of that).
All these murders have to be having some effect on the DEs. One would suspect they are getting a bit jumpy.

Day is an idoit, but he's also got power, which makes him dangerous. Figures Percy'd be working for him. Percy could be of help to Harry, but he's still a git.

Marvelous chapter, Theo.

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Theowyn
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Posted - 03/16/2007 :  13:00:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the great comments!

I promise that both the letters and the Clarifying Solution will play their parts in the story. Even Percy will have a purpose eventually.

As to Draco and the DE murders, Harry hasn't put these together since Draco isn't a DE. Harry is thinking of this as a personal vendetta against Draco or Lucius. Plus, Harry is desperately trying to forget about the murders, themselves.

The DEs, meanwhile, were already nervous wrecks back during summer. By now they've either settled into a grim seige mentality or given themselves over to fanatical fatalism. The latter would certainly apply to Bella. LV isn't very concerned though. He'll simply recruit new DEs to replace the ones killed.

Krabat, thanks in particular for that quote of Snape's. I haven't read that bit in a while and I'm happy to say that Snape is absolutely accurate. The Clarifying Solution does indeed give insight into what you "most desperately need to understand."

So what is the most important thing that Harry needs to understand and why?

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Edited by - Theowyn on 03/16/2007 13:13:05
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sunsethill
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Posted - 03/18/2007 :  19:44:02  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There were several great parts to this new chapter, even though I felt it was another of those transitional chapters. I continue to adore your use of Spinner's End and Snape's background as a half-blood. In many ways, that--to me--was one of the more interesting things that JKR did for Snape as a character. I had wondered why Harry didn't recognize Snape's house. The abandoned store being used as Snape's potions lab had niggled at me, but now we know that Snape has walled-off his actual home. I fully expect what we find to be behind the wall to be mind-blowing--pun intended.

I, too, don't trust Knight, but you have done such a great job making her enigmatic that I won't feel betrayed if she turns out to be O.K. But I really think she will turn out to have a personal vendetta against death eaters. Trying to get Draco killed in such a horrible way, even though he isn't a DE yet is really horrible. I'm eager to see what you end up doing with Draco as a character.

Running for your lives has to be a sure-fire way to bring the minor nature of Harry's offense home! I loved Snape's line "Seventeen isn't an easy age." I think it was VERY important for Snape to remember that.

And Dumbledore was so "Dumbledore" when he left Snape and Harry to wallow in their indignation without telling them that he had to go prevent the ministry from arresting Snape for saving Harry's life. Your ministry has gotten really creepy!

Editing nit-pics:
Chapter 21: page 1 you have "wooded stool" rather than "wooden stool."
page 5 you have "Harry peaked around..." rather than "Harry peeked around..."

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Theowyn
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Posted - 03/19/2007 :  11:42:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, SH, I'm glad you like Spinner's End. I think one of the things that makes HP such a popular topic for fan-fiction is that Jo creates so much that she, herself, barely uses. Occlumency/Legilimency are a prime example and Snape's lower-class, Muggle upbringing is another. She has left so much room for fan-fiction writers to explore.

quote:
I'm eager to see what you end up doing with Draco as a character.

Draco is a great character and I wish I had the means to follow him through this story as an alternate pov. He is not having a good year. But his story will come out in the end.

quote:
Running for your lives has to be a sure-fire way to bring the minor nature of Harry's offense home! I loved Snape's line "Seventeen isn't an easy age." I think it was VERY important for Snape to remember that.

Yes, mortal peril does have a way of putting things in perspective. And yes, this line of Snape's is tremendously important. It acknowledges so much without actually saying anything. And Harry understands. This is even more significant than Snape's admission itself, yet neither of them gives it a thought. They don't even notice how deep the understanding between them has become.

quote:
And Dumbledore was so "Dumbledore" when he left Snape and Harry to wallow in their indignation without telling them that he had to go prevent the ministry from arresting Snape for saving Harry's life.

I love Dumbledore! He is so much fun to write because there is such range to his character and uncovering the layers of his hidden agendas takes careful planning. All through the story I have to write him in a way that is consistent with his ultimate goals while at the same time not even hinting at those goals. Fortunately, Dumbledore usually has a number of reasons for why he does what he does.

This particular scene is a perfect example. Here, his official and typically enigmatic reason for hurrying off is that he has an important meeting that can't be delayed. Naturally, such a generic excuse is hardly convincing to Snape and Harry.

But Dumbledore has a second reason for leaving; one he doesn't admit, but which is readily obvious. He is tremendously amused at their mortification and is intentionally leaving them alone to contend with each other. Neither Snape nor Harry appreciates this, of course.

But while both of these reasons are valid, the most crucial reason goes unsuspected because neither Snape nor Harry knows enough to even guess at the trouble Day is about to cause and Dumbledore doesn't have the time or inclination to explain it to them.

quote:
Your ministry has gotten really creepy!
Thank you!

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Edited by - Theowyn on 03/21/2007 14:06:23
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Theowyn
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Posted - 03/28/2007 :  01:04:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chapter 23 is up!

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Edited by - Theowyn on 03/28/2007 01:05:46
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