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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2007 :  18:24:16  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Krabat, no, we don't know what Snape's patronus is--JKR won't tell, even though someone did ask once.

I started thinking about it, and when I was re-readin OotP, it popped in my head that it could be a thestral. I won't rewrite the whole thing here, but here's a link to my blog:

http://eeyoresreflections.blogspot.com/2007/01/what-is-severus-snapes-patronus.html

Eeyore

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2007 :  19:38:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi guys!

Just popping in to say thanks for the continued thoughtful discussion. I unfortunately have been flat on my back with a horrible cold for the last two days and only dragged myself in here to my den for a few minutes to see what's going on in the world.

It wouldn't be so bad if it were just me, but my younger son has been off school all week with this same cold. My daughter is staying with my mom because she, too, is sick and I can't take care of her. Naturally, this had to happen the week my husband is out of town on business, though last night when he called he said he felt pretty bad too. That leaves my older son who isn't feeling great, but at least is still functioning enough to keep up supplied with ice water and soup.

Anyway, I'm hoping we'll all be well again soon. Take care and I'll be back with some more thoughtful comments when my mind isn't besotted with cold medicine.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2007 :  19:49:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Take care of yourselves, Theo! We've had bouts with two different colds here lately. I'm trying not to come down with either one, but that doesn't always work out. Daughter has missed a day and a half of school from the latest illness. She had a fever of 102* from Thursday evening through Saturday night-- and that was with Tylenol. Now all she has is a nasty cough and sniffly nose.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2007 :  20:10:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eeyore, great LJ post regarding Snape. I like the idea of a thestral very much.

I see Torill has been posting there. Didn't she try the galleries.com at one time? I think I remember the name-- and a few of the viewpoints. I seem to recall a few clashes on one of the Snape threads.

Must dash. Daughter wants to watch Disney's Robin Hood (wish it could be Eroll Flynn instead) as an introduction for our next book selection for school.




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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2007 :  12:41:59  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eeyore

Krabat, no, we don't know what Snape's patronus is--JKR won't tell, even though someone did ask once.

I started thinking about it, and when I was re-readin OotP, it popped in my head that it could be a thestral.

I don't think I've seen anyone else make this point, and I too like the idea, Eeyore. But I don't think it would have given much away if Rowling had told us that Snape's patronus was a thestral. It still would have left Snape with an ambiguous character. I think learning the answer to this question will be one of the more interesting aspects of DH and I am convinced that Snape's patronus has changed after the death of Dumbledore. I think this will be why he will be able to get information to the Order without anyone knowing who it is. I also expect it to be a phoenix now--but what do I know?? Rowling always fools me.

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gimu
Addled

Ireland
209 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2007 :  13:00:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poor Theo and family - I feel your pain. I have lost my voice through having a cold. Get well soon to you! I for one am looking forward to the weekend!
So ye still believe that Snape is not evil - well I suppose I like to believe that too. Thats why Theo's fic is so great!
Going to read PS/SS now - always makes me feel better.
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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2007 :  23:08:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are also a number of arguments for Snape's patronus being a phoenix. Rowling couldn't reveal that because it would give strength to the idea that Snape did not betray the Order. But what I find interesting is the rebirth angle. Dumbledore has always believed in second chances. Snape has had at least one "do over." A phoenix would be an appropriate symbol for both of them-- though not as picturesque as a thestral.

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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2007 :  01:52:02  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I like the idea of a phoenix, as well. But it seems to me that if Snape's patronus was a phoenix (or a unicorn or even a centaur) that no one in the Order would have had any doubts about him. A phoenix just represents everything positive, and then there is the obvious connection with Dumbledore. If they use their Patronus to send messages, then the other Order members must know what his is.

I do think it's possible that Snape's Patronus may change--we saw that with Tonks, and that may have happened so we wouldn't be surprised that Snape's has changed. But more than a Patronus, I expect that Fawkes will show loyalty to Snape as well as to Harry. I think that is the only thing that will convince Harry that Snape is on the good side.

As for the thestral--that ambiguity is one of the things I liked about it. As Hagrid tells the class, there is nothing evil about them, and they are quite useful and can keep one from ever being lost. But their reputation is what stands in the way of people accepting them--well, and they don't look exactly cuddley either.

We see the same things with Snape--he has quite a nasty reputation, even before we see him picking on Harry, Hermione, Neville, and everyone else. He's anything but cuddley, but if he is on Dumbledore's side as some of us think, he may be the only one to keep them all from getting lost in the battle to defeat Voldemort.

Really, though--nothing would surprise me with Rowling. He could have a bat for a Patronus, with all the bat references she's made concerning Severus. And I guess some people like bats, but I'm not one of them--so I'll take the thestral.

Eeyore

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2007 :  12:47:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, there we go. I think bats are cool. I wouldn't want them living in my house, but I love to see them out at night or asleep during the day. We saw a tiny one clinging to a wall in one of the parking garages downtown. Like a little mouse with wings.

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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  02:23:48  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

Well, there we go. I think bats are cool. I wouldn't want them living in my house, but I love to see them out at night or asleep during the day. We saw a tiny one clinging to a wall in one of the parking garages downtown. Like a little mouse with wings.



Yeah, see that's the thing. I'm not too keen on mice and rats either. The mice outside don't bother me too much, but I don't want them in the house, even the ones that are pets. Might have something to do with when I lived in the dorm. Someone had two pet mice--one white and one black. Well, the black one escaped and we were supposed to be watching for it.

It would have been OK, but I woke up one morning and the darned thing was sitting on the end of my bed, looking at me. Just creepy. Of course when I moved, it took off--don't know if they ever did catch it.

Eeyore

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  10:20:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I dislike rats intensely, but mice I can deal with. I still don't want them in the house, but the ones we did have were awfully cute. They weren't a complete surprise, though. I can see how waking up with one staring at you would be unnerving to say the least. Ours started out in our mud room, then took forays into the kitchen. There were only two of them (enough to worry about). Daughter saw them first. Of course she was only three or four at the time so we thought she was imagining it until we saw one make a dash from under the refrigerator to under the stove. All we could think to do was flush it out and trap it under a collander. Then we had to figure out what to do with the mouse. On top of that the phone rang. Once disposed of, the second mouse came looking for it's friend. In the end we ended up with two collandered mice for the evening-- not the way I would advise catching mice, though it worked well. All I can advise if one does attempt a similar capture is don't look at the mouse! They have adorable black glittery eyes and twitchy little whiskers. Perhaps I've read too many children's stories about woodland creatures. It was difficult not to think them too cute.
Rats, on the other hand, are nasty and have no redeeming features (like furry tails).

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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  18:06:35  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I think that's part of it--things that have bald tails are just disgusting to me.

It's funny, because the boys used to catch field mice on the playground when I taught--and they didn't bother me, but they were also outside, and I was more worried that the kids would hurt them than anything else. I suppose I should have been worried that the mice would give the kids some sort of disease, but I didn't.

Once in a while, I hear and see mice at day camp. That doesn't bother me at all--I figure that I'm in their home, and they're not in mine, so it's OK.


Theo--we need the next chapter--we've wandered far off topic, I'm afraid. Now about those dementors that are breeding--I don't want those in my home either.

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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2007 :  18:13:53  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eeyore
I do think it's possible that Snape's Patronus may change--we saw that with Tonks, and that may have happened so we wouldn't be surprised that Snape's has changed. But more than a Patronus, I expect that Fawkes will show loyalty to Snape as well as to Harry. I think that is the only thing that will convince Harry that Snape is on the good side.


I agree, Eeyore. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fawkes take an AK for Snape when Harry catches up with him. And this may wake Harry up to the fact that he should not use the Unforgiveables.

Edited to say: Woo-hoo. I just hit 200!

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Edited by - sunsethill on 02/13/2007 18:15:26
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  01:03:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sunsethill

quote:
Originally posted by Eeyore
I do think it's possible that Snape's Patronus may change--we saw that with Tonks, and that may have happened so we wouldn't be surprised that Snape's has changed. But more than a Patronus, I expect that Fawkes will show loyalty to Snape as well as to Harry. I think that is the only thing that will convince Harry that Snape is on the good side.


I agree, Eeyore. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fawkes take an AK for Snape when Harry catches up with him. And this may wake Harry up to the fact that he should not use the Unforgiveables.

I agree with you guys about Fawkes, though I think rather than sacrificing himself he may just snatch Harry's wand out of his hand and go perch up in a high tree until Harry calms down and starts listening to reason. Harry would be sooooo indignant if that happened.

Oh, and I fully expect Hermione to have a hand in nagging Harry about Snape's loyalty. Even at the end of HBP she didn't sound particularly convinced that everything to do with Snape is as black and white as Harry thinks it is. You KNOW that she's going to work it out.

I also like mice and bats, so long as they're outside.

I think that catches me up on the O/T stuff. As to the next chapter, it should be out this Thursday.

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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  02:14:14  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Yay! I thought it would be next week before we had the next chapter.

Which brings up another question, Theo--how many chapters will HPCS have, or is that something you don't know yet? I thought you might, because it sounds like you very carefully plan out the whole story.

Eeyore

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  11:46:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eeyore

Yay! I thought it would be next week before we had the next chapter.

Which brings up another question, Theo--how many chapters will HPCS have, or is that something you don't know yet? I thought you might, because it sounds like you very carefully plan out the whole story.


Yes, it actually is due out next week, but I'm trying to step up the timetable somewhat in order to get the entire book done by July.

As far as how many chapters there will be in total, it looks like 28 at the moment, but could be a chapter or two longer. It's a bit difficult to say because while I have the whole story outlined, sometimes a section I thought would only take one chapter ends up taking two.

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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  19:13:08  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
*smiles happily* Cool, another chapter to read tonight. Actually, we need one that shows us in front of our computers reading. I'll fix a pot of tea and some snacks to munch on while I read. I like doing that when the house is all quiet, and there's nothing to interupt my reading.

I had printed off all of HPEW, but I didn't get started doing it with HPCS, so I'm still reading them on my laptop.

I have a little time now--I think I'll re-read the last chapter, just to get in the proper mood.

Eeyore

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2007 :  02:02:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And Chapter 20 should be arriving just about now.

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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2007 :  06:11:54  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I took the time to re-read Chapter 19 first. And then I delved into Chapter 20.

Brilliant, Theo--absolutely fantastic.

I love what you are doing with Harry and Severus.

Wow.

Eeyore

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Krabat
Giddy

Germany
40 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2007 :  07:51:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I second Eeyore, the idea to confront Harry with a younger Snape is interesting. I always wondered what you intended the relationship between Harry and Snape to be, Theo, assuming it has time to become somewhat stable. The role of a fatherfigure or a wise mentor does not suit Snape, since he is emotionally so immature. On the other hand, he certainly will not grant Harry the possibillity to get to know him as an equal, so that friendship could be the result. By confronting the young Severus in Snape's mind, Harry will get the opportunity to see a lot of Snape's behaviour in the context of his (Sanpe's) life experiences. I'm curious to see, how (and if) Harry will use this information in his relationship with a Snape, who has no memory of their encounters in his mind.
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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2007 :  14:32:17  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Krabat

I second Eeyore, the idea to confront Harry with a younger Snape is interesting. I always wondered what you intended the relationship between Harry and Snape to be, Theo, assuming it has time to become somewhat stable. The role of a fatherfigure or a wise mentor does not suit Snape, since he is emotionally so immature. On the other hand, he certainly will not grant Harry the possibillity to get to know him as an equal, so that friendship could be the result. By confronting the young Severus in Snape's mind, Harry will get the opportunity to see a lot of Snape's behaviour in the context of his (Sanpe's) life experiences.

I agree, Krabat. Very insightful analysis.

Theo, this chapter was wonderful. Very, very creative. I feel like I tell you that a lot, but then you always come up with something unique again--and that's saying a lot considering how much Snape-centric fanfiction I read. The role reversal with Harry plowing through Snape's mind and Snape having to beg him to stop made me feel so bad for Snape, and I think I gained a new appreciation for your Snape when he moved past his discomfort to do what needed to be done. And then for Harry to meet young!Snape and realize that his soul never moved past the trama of the Potters' deaths...it made me want to weep for Snape. I am really pumped now wanting to see where this is going to take the two of them.

And as always, your Dumbledore continues to be the man Rowling has created. So many people after HBP don't seem to understand him--especially most Snape lovers, at least the ones who write fanfiction. It makes me sad to see how many people either believe him to be incompetent or almost evil.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
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Posted - 02/20/2007 :  15:33:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ah well, if one refuses to entertain the notion that Snape may still be anti-V, despite his nastiness, then all one is left with is DD being fooled. Quite a few people blame Dumbledore for his fallibility which by trusting Snape put Harry in danger and put everyone else through the worst classes of their lives (next to Umbridge's).

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2007 :  17:08:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the lovely comments, guys. As always, they are very thoughtful and are a tremendous help to me. You may not realize how much I appreciate the feedback, but it's really useful to be able to guage whether or not my plots and characters are coming across as I intend them to do.

Krabat, great point about Snape not really being a father-figure. Harry is too old for that now anyway and needs to form adult relationships with the adults in his life as he moves towards stepping out in front of his friends and allies (both the teenagers and adults) as the hero who will defeat Voldemort. Wrestling Snape to a point where they are equals is one of Harry's many challenges.

SH, I'm particularly glad that DD is working because he is quite integral to HPCS and I love him in this story - not only for his interactions with Harry, et al, but for his behind-the-scenes agenda which (naturally) won't become clear until the end, but which I have the advantage of already knowing.

I only wish I had an extra three months to write because there is so much I need to squeeze into the next 10 chapters.

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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2007 :  19:01:26  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn
I only wish I had an extra three months to write because there is so much I need to squeeze into the next 10 chapters.


I can believe that. When you said that you only had about 10 chapters left, I couldn't believe it. In many ways, I feel that the plot is just getting going in this story, so the last 10 chapters will have to be one heck of a ride. It should be great fun!

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Theowyn
Looney

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Posted - 02/21/2007 :  19:56:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sunsethill

quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn
I only wish I had an extra three months to write because there is so much I need to squeeze into the next 10 chapters.


I can believe that. When you said that you only had about 10 chapters left, I couldn't believe it. In many ways, I feel that the plot is just getting going in this story, so the last 10 chapters will have to be one heck of a ride. It should be great fun!

You're right. Most of what has already come is setup and the plot strands will begin to come together at an increasingly fast pace.

Btw, I've sent chapter 21 off to Myf to be beta'd.

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Theowyn
Looney

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Posted - 02/22/2007 :  22:56:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi guys,

Remember back in November when I took a bit of a hiatus because I was working on a special project over at the Leaky Lounge. Well, at long last it's up - the best guide to book seven that Leaky's best minds could come up with. Have a look and I hope you enjoy it. I'm sure you know which chapter I had the honor of writing.

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/#static:bookseven/toc

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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  06:16:28  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, I just saw that! I figured out that that was what you'd been talking about. Very cool--I'm looking forward to going through it. (Nice bio on you, btw.)

I hadn't mentioned Dumbledore in HPCS--but I agree with everyone else that I like what you are doing with him. The only thing I have trouble with is that he shouldn't be there, according to canon. But then, Molly should be, and I've gotten used to that one, so....

I too am amazed how willing people are to accept the Tower scene at face value--we should all know by now that very few things Rowling does are as straight forward as they seem. And if it turns out that it was, then it's always going to be very out of character for her writing, IMO. I'm all for plot twists and surprises, but that would be one that is too obvious in its presentation and too soon for the end of the story. She could still very well make Snape a loyal Death Eater, but it has to come after everyone, including Harry, has accepted that he isn't--that's what she has set up throughout the books and to do anything else would fall flat.

However, I'm still hoping for Snape to be loyal--never nice and sweet and cuddly, but definitely on the good side--and hopefully standing by Harry's side in the last battle--or dying for him or with him.

Eeyore

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Theowyn
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Posted - 02/23/2007 :  12:34:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Glad you like my bio, Eeyore. The book 7 guide was an amazing project and I was incredibly fortunate to be involved with it - especially since I got such a plum writing assignment.

Speaking of writing, chapter 21 has been given Myf's stamp of approval, so it will be out next Thursday, March 1st.

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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2007 :  16:57:34  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Theowyn

Hi guys,

Remember back in November when I took a bit of a hiatus because I was working on a special project over at the Leaky Lounge. Well, at long last it's up - the best guide to book seven that Leaky's best minds could come up with. Have a look and I hope you enjoy it. I'm sure you know which chapter I had the honor of writing.

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/#static:bookseven/toc



Thanks for letting us know about this. Great essay! I think I'll take one point over to the S.I.N.E. topic.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
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Posted - 02/23/2007 :  16:57:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

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