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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2006 :  13:46:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poor man. He really should have chosen his friends more carefully.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2006 :  23:20:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

Poor man. He really should have chosen his friends more carefully.

Yes, both Albert and Mordecai suffered hideous fates as a result of trusting Tom Riddle. Which only leaves Cecil's tale to tell.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 12/28/2006 23:20:39
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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2006 :  14:00:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yet another uplifting tale of friendship gone askew, no doubt. Hmm. Would Voldie's friends/followers be considered "enablers" do you think?

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2006 :  14:31:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

Yet another uplifting tale of friendship gone askew, no doubt. Hmm. Would Voldie's friends/followers be considered "enablers" do you think?

Interesting question. What would happen if an evil madman hatched a plan to take over the world, but no one signed up to help? Even Voldemort probably couldn't take over the world alone. He needs his minions. But I do think his followers are more victims than enablers. "Do what I say or die," is pretty persuasive after all.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2006 :  19:28:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, yes, but that aspect of the situation didn't always become apparent until after the honeymoon was over, so to speak. Once they had signed on, "do or die" was the threat, but most people do not join a group with that kind of rule with their eyes wide open. So, in a sense they are victims, but willing ones. Everyone joined for a reason. Some joined because they agreed wholeheartedly with Voldemort's reputed agenda, others for personal reasons, but all voluntarily joined. It is difficult to consider people who volunteer for a group that openly support genocide and world domination as victims.



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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2006 :  22:55:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You make a good point about everyone joining voluntarily. It is important that these people followed LV of their own free will. But Albert and Mordecai joined up long before the genocide and world domination were publicly part of the plan. They were just out to find a new way to achieve immortality, so they were more victims than most. I don't think either of them anticipated using Dementors and by the time things started to turn ugly, they were naturally in too far to back out.


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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2006 :  12:29:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmm. That leaves us with Cecil.... Do you think Tom let anyone in on his plans as they evolved? He seems like a loner to me, but then he also craves recognition/fame-- thus another use for his followers. What's the point of a cunning, sneaky plan if you can't boast about how you came up with it and go on at length on how brilliant you are for thinking it up? Then when, or if, it goes wrong you can blame the slimy lowlife who screwed it up and punish them properly.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2006 :  13:51:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, the classic M.O. of a true evil genius.

I can't go into detail about Cecil, but don't forget what Hagrid said about him: "... he always gave me the chills. I always thought there was somat not quite right about Ďim."

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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2006 :  18:52:50  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Well, leaving Cecil aside for a moment....

This is OT, but I just noticed that it's your birthday, Theowyn. So--

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!


Eeyore

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2007 :  01:44:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eeyore

Well, leaving Cecil aside for a moment....

This is OT, but I just noticed that it's your birthday, Theowyn. So--

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!




Thanks Eeyore! I've had a lovely few days. I went out to dinner with my husband and some friends for my birthday. Then we had a party at our house new year's eve, and today we were in the Bay Area visiting more friends. Busy, but very nice.

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sunsethill
Confunded

USA
653 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2007 :  13:52:18  Show Profile  Visit sunsethill's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan
Everyone joined for a reason. Some joined because they agreed wholeheartedly with Voldemort's reputed agenda, others for personal reasons, but all voluntarily joined. It is difficult to consider people who volunteer for a group that openly support genocide and world domination as victims.


This is actually one of the questions that I think is not quite covered in canon. What exactly did Voldie's early followers think they were signing up for? I've seen several stories which posit that in the early days Voldie was more like a member of the political opposition. I don't think this quite holds water based on what we see of young Riddle in HBP. He seems more of a loner, rather than a charismatic leader of men, and Dumbledore suggests that he dropped out of circulation for a while. We know that HE is looking for immortality, but is that what he offered his early followers? I hope we get some insight on this from DH.

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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2007 :  15:32:07  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I've wondered the same thing, sunsethill. Dumbledore does paint Tom as a loner, but in the Slughorn memory, we see that he is with others and that he seems to be the leader of the group. He also said that he always had the ability to charm those he needed--except that Dumbledore seemed suspicious of him. And Harry's response was that Dumbledore probably saw right through him--erm, yes, in more ways than one.

There are some leaders who seem charming and surrounded by friends, but in fact are just using others for their own purposes. Still, like you, I wonder if Voldemort promised immortality to all the Death Eaters. I'm afraid that that may be one of those unanswered questions, with Rowling just assuming that we understand the Death Eaters motivation of wanting power, and that is enough to explain their joining such a weird group.

Eeyore

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Krabat
Giddy

Germany
40 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2007 :  04:45:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I liked the last chapter, but have still some troubles with the new breed of Dementors. How do they distinguish pure-bloods, half-bloods and muggleborns? Does their soul feel somehow different? I always thought that the distinction is purely ideological.
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2007 :  10:43:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Krabat

I liked the last chapter, but have still some troubles with the new breed of Dementors. How do they distinguish pure-bloods, half-bloods and muggleborns? Does their soul feel somehow different? I always thought that the distinction is purely ideological.

It is, but every person has a sense of their own blood identity. Ron knows he's pureblood, Hermione knows she Muggle-born and so forth. This is what the Dementors are picking up on.

Dementors really are the ultimate Legilimens. They manipulate memories and feed on feelings.

I'm glad you liked the chapter.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 01/03/2007 10:48:33
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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2007 :  15:27:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If I remember correctly, in the Chamber of Secrets diary Tom told Harry that one of his goals (as a 16 year old) was killing muggles-- or was it mudbloods? It would seem "cleansing wizarding blood" would be at least one of his appeals to people like the Blacks. I do wonder if world domination was on the to do list distributed to the DE's. Voldemort would probably keep that idea quiet until after applying the Dark Mark.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2007 :  17:21:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

If I remember correctly, in the Chamber of Secrets diary Tom told Harry that one of his goals (as a 16 year old) was killing muggles-- or was it mudbloods? It would seem "cleansing wizarding blood" would be at least one of his appeals to people like the Blacks. I do wonder if world domination was on the to do list distributed to the DE's. Voldemort would probably keep that idea quiet until after applying the Dark Mark.

I agree. I think in the early days especially, Voldemort presented himself as a charismatic political leader championing pureblood political/ethnic goals. That he was also a psychopathic megalomanic only became clear later and still, many of his followers see their primary goal to be blood purity. To be fair, this probably IS Voldemort's main goal aside from gaining power. His hatred of Muggles and Muggle-borns is not feigned. He would happily murder them all.

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Edited by - Theowyn on 01/03/2007 17:22:08
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2007 :  15:40:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi guys,

As you know, Myf is off on a well-deserved holiday to NZ. Unfortunately, this means that she has yet to see chapter 18 of HPCS. Consequently, it won't be out this evening. I do expect that Myf will be back by early next week and I'm sure that she will get to chapter 18 as soon as humanly possible, but we will have to play this by ear. On a more encouraging note, chapter 19 is coming along nicely and I hope to have it to Myf within a week.

Thanks in advance for your understanding and patience.

Love, Theo


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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2007 :  22:20:00  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Aw, darn. I was looking forward to a chapter tonight.

Eeyore

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Myf
Confunded

571 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2007 :  23:55:32  Show Profile  Visit Myf's Homepage  Click to see Myf's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Sorry! But I am back in town now and beginning to catch up on this and that. However, I'm also in the midst of moving house - :( - so while I hope to get it back to Theo really quickly, I can't promise that things might not pop up to dominate my time.

If you're looking for trouble you found it.
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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2007 :  01:51:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't fret, hon. We all know you'll send it along as soon as you get the chance. Welcome home!

Btw, has your package arrived?

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2007 :  11:10:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just think of it as the price we pay for the priviledge of being the first to read each chapter!
At least we don't have to wait quite as long as Sugar Quillers do.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2007 :  14:18:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good news! Myf has sent back chapter 18.
Now if we can just find a title for it, I'll be able to send it out.

Unless you guys are up for a naming contest?

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Edited by - Theowyn on 01/12/2007 14:19:30
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Eeyore
Barmy

USA
311 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2007 :  18:21:41  Show Profile  Send Eeyore a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Er, well, you could send it out and then we could think up a name after we've read it.

Eeyore

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2007 :  20:00:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Indiana Jones and the Carrots of Cortez?

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2007 :  01:24:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eeyore

Er, well, you could send it out and then we could think up a name after we've read it.

Yes, that's what I had in mind. Actually, the more I contemplate the idea, the more I think it would be a lot of fun. Consequently, my nameless chapter 18 should now be winging its way to your inboxes.

Enjoy and then give me your ideas for a title. I can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan


Indiana Jones and the Carrots of Cortez?


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Edited by - Theowyn on 01/13/2007 01:27:08
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Quartermistress
Giddy

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2007 :  16:45:44  Show Profile  Visit Quartermistress's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello, all! I just discovered this forum a few days ago, and was excited to see that there were more chapters of HPCS written than what is posted on the Sugar Quill. Iíve since caught up to chapter 17. I havenít gotten chapter 18 though, maybe it got lost on the way to my mailbox. Would you mind sending it again, Theo?

Iím intrigued as to what exactly Tom did to alter the Dementors, and how they actually suck out souls. Voldemortís first rise must have involved a lot of strange disappearances, with the missing people ending up as research subjects. And what was all that white mist outside the cottage? Have the new Dementors taken on a different appearance, or was it just a result of their breeding? We didnít actually see any recognizable Dementors as far as Iím aware, but whatever was there certainly took out Hermione effectively. Can only Muggle-borns see them?

I also have my suspicions about Knight, especially Moodyís tracking charm using the hair he found at the first crime scene. Snape is the great red herring in canon, after all, and we know that Knight certainly has the motivation to kill Death Eaters. I canít wait to see how that plays out.

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2007 :  18:35:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry Quartermistress, I sometimes email from work and sometimes from home and while I updated my address list at work, I forgot to add you to my home list. Chapter 18 should now be on its way to you.

As to the Dementors, in HBP we learn that when they breed, they produce a mist such as I describe in Ch17. I don't know if JKR intends the mist itself to be the juvenile Dementors or whether this is supposed to be some sort of happiness-draining byproduct, but I am assuming the former to be true here.

The Dementors that TR and company bred, being a domestic breed, retain this juvenile mist form in the same way that dogs retain the juvenile wolf characteristic of barking. They are every bit as dangerous as normal Dementors - at least where Muggle-borns are concerned, but they don't affect pure-bloods and are quite averse to larger groups of humans.

Regarding the DE murders, that of course is a question I can't answer, but I love hearing everyone's suspicions.

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Siobhan
Chief Healer

USA
2157 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2007 :  17:11:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do you really, Theo?! Remember how much we all suspected Ryan in HPEW?

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Theowyn
Looney

1078 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2007 :  19:37:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Siobhan

Do you really, Theo?! Remember how much we all suspected Ryan in HPEW?

Yes, and I loved every moment of it!

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Edited by - Theowyn on 01/14/2007 19:38:21
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U-No-Poo
Addled

133 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2007 :  20:30:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ďSkiving snack boxes,Ē he said with an unmistakable note of exasperation in his voice.
I was CRYING with mirth . Beautiful!
One half of this chapter has the fanciful, dreamlike atmosphere of Harry's trips to DD's mind; fantasy gone wild, with Devil's Snare, a basilisk and a werewolf (hmm... PS, CS and PoA) in the mix. The second half reads like Rowling meets Tom Clancy, with undercover wizards, espionage, atmosphere charged with secrets and lies. To further this contrast, it starts with a DD/H conversation and ends with a DD/S one. This chapter is a great example of the many levels at which HPCS operates and intrigues. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I've never felt like slapping Harry (in canon or thanon) but when he decided to continue his research after DD reminded him not to and the fiasco in Dorset, I was like: "arrgghhh!!!".
Ooh, nice to see what Lucius has been up to. BTW, does that potion make it harder for Lucius to recollect his conversations with Snape?
As to titles...
Know Thy Enemy Which is all Harry wants (but still... arrgghhh!) and what Snape and DD need to do.
Brain Teaser Bellatrix has Snape stumped and hopefully Harry will do the same to Voldie
If you want something done... If Dumbledore and Lucius will not let on, Harry and Snape will have to take matters into their own hands.

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