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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2006 :  01:49:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think Alan's getting a little grandpa-looking these days. I prefer him in the pictures of his younger days - how about him in that kilt holding some Stevenson?

Sorry Ben - I had hopes that you'd found a good read.

I loved the ink mix-up.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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Myf
Confunded

571 Posts

Posted - 08/23/2006 :  07:00:39  Show Profile  Visit Myf's Homepage  Click to see Myf's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
You might have, AMC! I am still hiding my face.

The book has learnt its lesson, now - I am not to be marked.

I can tell I am being spoiled at the moment. This morning, the book decided to wake up and start browsing just as I was going to get up and go home, and the thought 'couldn't you have decided to wake up 20 minutes ago? I'm going to be late for work!' did flash through my mind. But then I realised how idiotic I was being and was unpunctual with abandon.

If you're looking for trouble you found it.
Professor Stephen Hawking
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Unicorn8
Barmy

Germany
319 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  14:24:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Remember the book that wasn't interested in being read by me? Well somehow the book seems to be jealous of other books that I might read. But it still doesn't give any hints, that it would like a little reading.
Somehow I don't understand books....

Order of the Bookmark
Proud Member of S.I.N.E.

"Always"

WWLLD
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MrBen
Barmy

Australia
284 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  19:05:07  Show Profile  Visit MrBen's Homepage  Send MrBen an AOL message  Click to see MrBen's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Frickin' open the cover and find if the blurb has anything written on it about you, U8. This book is not going to tell you anything out its contents unless you express an interest in reading it.
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Myf
Confunded

571 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  19:13:43  Show Profile  Visit Myf's Homepage  Click to see Myf's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Um, I agree with Ben (in a less abrasive way) - you're obviously interested in this book, so why not make a move? And if you're not, then you can safely ignore him. :D

If you're looking for trouble you found it.
Professor Stephen Hawking
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  22:41:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yep! Take the book out, get it a little loose and jump its... I mean ruffle its pages.



And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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Jokelly
Barking

USA
1509 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2006 :  00:06:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have an observation about the physical make-up of books in a clinical way but don't really know how to analogize it.

I was looking at a health study recently and found out that most books outside of the US, and in non-Jewish societies, usually don't have a procedure that's sometimes done to male books. In the U.S. two-thirds of parents have the procedure done on their infants. When my sister gave birth to her son, they had the doctors do the procedure. I guess in my experience I didn't realize that it was uncommon in other places. I was surprised at the low percentages in other Western countries. I guess I learned something new though.

I have no idea how you would put that in book terms. The only thing I could come up with is dog-earing pages and even that isn't very good.

Current location: Laying low at Lupin's
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2006 :  01:19:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jo, let's put it this way - most American books have their Forwards edited out by their authors in the weeks following their publish date. Apparently, Americans feel that this make for a cleaner, healthier book. Traditionally, this kind of editing was done only on books written in Hebrew and the editing was an important ritual for the authors, but here in the U.S. the editing is done without ceremony to a whole spectrum of newly published books (only those that have Forwards in the first place, of course). A book with a full Forward is kind of a rarity here but apparently not overseas?






And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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Jokelly
Barking

USA
1509 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2006 :  01:37:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Loll, I like that, edited Forwards.

I know they edited my nephew the day he was born, and we're Protestant so there was no religious reason behind it. The pendulum is swinging back and forth on the issue. Newer studies have showed that editing might just have benefits in cancer prevention in the long run, but nothing significant. Then you'll read a contradicting study. You're right though, a fully intact Forward is somewhat unknown in this country.

Current location: Laying low at Lupin's
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MrBen
Barmy

Australia
284 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2006 :  05:19:22  Show Profile  Visit MrBen's Homepage  Send MrBen an AOL message  Click to see MrBen's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I don't know if I'm a representative sample, but my foreward was not edited - although I think that editing would have been helpful. Do people here have issues and preferences?

(Y'know, I can only imagine what we're going to equate epilogues to.)
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Bee
Mediwizard

846 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2006 :  10:45:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, I hadn't realised that it's common practice in the States to edit forwards. I thought it was only ever done for religious reasons. It's rare to edit forwards in this country as most books here are written by Catholics.

You learn something new everyday.

Order of the Bookmark
Purveyor of Fine Peebles
Haggy is (probably not) Cactus!
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Jokelly
Barking

USA
1509 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2006 :  11:43:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
See, Bee, isn't it surprising. I was the opposite and assumed editing was common in other English-speaking countries.

As for preferences, the odds are that you really aren't going to come upon a fully intact, unedited book in the U.S. so there really isn't anything to have a preference over. It's one thing I've never really discussed with my girlfriends. Probably because nobody had ever encountered an unedited edition. I did read that the procedure is on the decline in the Western U.S., but that's due to the rise in Hispanic births, who largely don't edit their children's forwards. In other parts of the nation, it's on the rise.

I remember the first time I found out about Forward Editing. I was about 9 or 10 years old and watching a program on tv with my mom. They were planning a Briss on the show and I remember asking my mom what a Briss was--and she told me. I remember thinking "Ewww". I asked what I thought was a simple question and got much more information than I ever wanted to know at that age.

A great episode of Friends is where Joey is up for a role in a movie as a 19th century Italian-American Catholic and there was nudity in it and the producers wanted an authentic Italian (unedited). Joey, being a modern Italian-American Catholic (edited Forward), had a problem and Monica tried to help him fashion a new forward using luncheon meats.

As for epilogues, I don't think we're ready for that discussion yet.

Current location: Laying low at Lupin's

Edited by - Jokelly on 08/29/2006 11:54:24
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2006 :  12:16:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know if there's any preference, exactly, Ben - I don't think I know of anyone who says there's a big difference in the experience of reading of books with or without abbreviated Forwards. I think I've heard full forwards can increase the incidence of... hmmm.. irritation .. in their readers due to the Forwards possibly containing some small amounts of inflammatory material.

As a side note - my own volume had his Forward edited years after publishing! The book was published overseas and one of its authors was adamant that Forwards were meant to remain intact. But my book kept having problems with unwanted foreign content sneaking into the text - I don't know why but apparently it can be an issue - so the Forward was abbreviated anyway. I thought it would have been a traumatic experience but my book says no.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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Myf
Confunded

571 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  00:13:39  Show Profile  Visit Myf's Homepage  Click to see Myf's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
How odd - I've never been with an edited book, so I also don't know what I prefer. Can't say I've ever really had anything to complain about, though.

Ha. Last night my current and expired books were in the same place at the same time again. Is it wrong of me to feel cocky because I've obviously got the better deal out of the breakup?

Also, later last night the book and I recreated some of our first date. Awesome.

If you're looking for trouble you found it.
Professor Stephen Hawking
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MrBen
Barmy

Australia
284 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  00:22:54  Show Profile  Visit MrBen's Homepage  Send MrBen an AOL message  Click to see MrBen's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Really, do you think you could tell the difference if the penmanship was equally vigorous? Or is it just the aesthetics that help form the impressions - judging a book by its cover?
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Myf
Confunded

571 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  01:12:45  Show Profile  Visit Myf's Homepage  Click to see Myf's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I think the content of the writing is way more important than the penmanship or other aesthetics... who cares how beautiful the pen is if it's writing crap Mills&Boon-type material?

If you're looking for trouble you found it.
Professor Stephen Hawking
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MrBen
Barmy

Australia
284 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  01:33:31  Show Profile  Visit MrBen's Homepage  Send MrBen an AOL message  Click to see MrBen's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
For our American viewers, Mills and Boon is a publisher of pulp romantic fiction, with frilly dress wearing women and hunky, bare chested men in a suitably erotic pose gracing the cover.
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Myf
Confunded

571 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  06:13:17  Show Profile  Visit Myf's Homepage  Click to see Myf's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Surely Mills and Boon transcends mere borders?

If you're looking for trouble you found it.
Professor Stephen Hawking
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diricawl
Looney

United Kingdom
1078 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  06:54:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My forward is undited. When my authoress took me to the publishing house, she demanded that her sequel's forward remain unchanged, despite vigorous demands from the publishers to edit. According to her, they chased her around the publishing house screaming "You didn't edit your sequel's forward!!!"

The first in my series would have looked badly on my forward being edited too, but then that book is a British original, and I'm only a US edition.

Order of the Bookmark

As to the avatar, well, if you girls can all have Alan Rickman...

"They don't want the Easter Bunny's power; The children in our generation want Harry's power, and they're getting it." - Laura Mallory
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MrBen
Barmy

Australia
284 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  07:20:03  Show Profile  Visit MrBen's Homepage  Send MrBen an AOL message  Click to see MrBen's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Apparently Mills and Boon does not transcend American borders, at least not those of any American I've spoken to (because, y'know, M&B is the first thing I talk about). Must be one of the good things about America.
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she-dog
Addled

213 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  07:55:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
LOL, my book talks in his sleep. Tonight all of a sudden he said in my ear "You and your bears!" and I for a moment I wondered "Bears? What bears? I have bears?" and I've been giggling to myself about it all day long...

Would you like me to do it now? Or would you like a few moments to compose an epitaph?
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  12:03:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmmm! You and your.. Bears, She-dog! I would have said you and your Books!

No, Boons and Mills or whatever have not made it to America - we have experienced Barbara Cartland and we have plenty of Bodice Ripper-type novels (used to star Fabio on the covers, I loved that - the same guy's picture on all these different book covers) but no Boons.

I'd say the vigorousness of the writing and the intricacy of the plot are of paramount importance. Of course, to be coarse, the size of the book does, in fact, matter a bit. I mean, you don't need to have a OotP hard-back, but it's dificult to curl up with Dorian Grey for long. It's a fabulous book - tremendous writing, terrific plot, exciting to the end - but it's very short.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  12:09:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would like to add a caveat that if you're absolutely in love with Oscar Wilde, Dorian Gray would still be your book of choice. Love is like that.


And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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n/a
deleted

1483 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  13:31:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And speaking of Oscar Wilde and Stephen Fry (and Myf's avatar)...

How much fun did Stephen Fry have making that movie!!! Plenty of excellent reading material there. Teehee!
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Jokelly
Barking

USA
1509 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  14:55:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
AMC, sometimes books can be too big. A friend of mine used to have this problem. When she first started reading she didn't realize what she'd gotten into. Sort of a shock really, but eventually she said she got used to it. She preferred slightly shorter reads though.

We don't have Mills & Boon brand in the U.S. I think the American version of Mills & Boon are Harlequin novels. Harlequins are not very good and can be read in about an hour. Johanna Lindsay novels are the ones who have Fabio on them. Which is odd because I've read some of her stuff and none of her characters are Fabio types. Most of the time the pictures have absolutely nothing to do with the plots, if the book actually has a plot.

So...if you have a sequel would you consider editing their forwards? I'd probably read all the research I could and in the end lean toward editing, but I would be open-minded enough to consider both sides of the argument. I guess it's all in the society you're raised and its expectations.




Current location: Laying low at Lupin's
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MrBen
Barmy

Australia
284 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  16:49:56  Show Profile  Visit MrBen's Homepage  Send MrBen an AOL message  Click to see MrBen's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I'd certainly consider it, as I still recall my first writing effort was an extremely painful one. Perhaps that's a genetic predisposition, but I can't say that it's something I can bring up in casual conversation with ease!
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she-dog
Addled

213 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2006 :  16:53:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've struggled with this decision, because obviously I am who I am and I live where I live. Over here of course everyone's edited, and I am religious in a way, but I try to make the distinction between faith and tradition, I don't like tradition.

I guess I'm leaning towards not doing it, and leaving the decision up to the sequel when it grows up. I can't make a decision about an organ I've never had, and for a person who's only 8 days old, and who might grow up to be an atheist or decide on some other religion. And is it worth it just for the health reasons? Again, I'm in no position to choose for him.

Ideally I should talk to my father about it, because he had his forward edited when he was over 40, and he knows what both versions feel like, and read like. But that would be so awkward. Maybe I will gather up the courage to do it if I know for sure that I'm expecting a male sequel.

I am sure of one thing - if I did decide to do it, I would only have it done by an actual doctor in an actual hospital, no religious ceremony. No person who doesn't believe in evolution and thinks the world was created 5000 years ago will be poking around my sequel with a knife.

Would you like me to do it now? Or would you like a few moments to compose an epitaph?

Edited by - she-dog on 08/30/2006 16:57:20
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she-dog
Addled

213 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2006 :  09:03:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, I have a question for the guys. maybe for the women as well, but mostly for the guys: would you rather own a book that's never been read before, or one that has been read many times and chooses you knowing you're the best?

Would you like me to do it now? Or would you like a few moments to compose an epitaph?
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diricawl
Looney

United Kingdom
1078 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2006 :  10:11:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Neither. It would all depend on the intangibles, like whether the book (I'm not sure there are female books on this thread, perhaps "reader"? I think I'm a book, judging by past precident, which leaves me somewhat flummoxed as to my supposed role in the reading experience). Anyway, I would only chose a reader that appreciated me for my depth of plot, my strong character development, and honestly liked to cuddle up next to me and connect in that way that readers do with books. Prior reading experience or lack thereof would make no difference.

Order of the Bookmark

As to the avatar, well, if you girls can all have Alan Rickman...

"They don't want the Easter Bunny's power; The children in our generation want Harry's power, and they're getting it." - Laura Mallory
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AMC
Mediwizard

1710 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2006 :  11:17:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On the whole edit vs no-edit decision for sequels, I always said I'd leave that up to my co-author. I figure certain decisions are better made by those who can personally relate to the pros and cons. But I know his decision would have been to edit.

Ben, I don't think that's unusual at all.



And I love you, I love you, I love you.
Like never before, like never before.

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